Mac Mini & NAS drive - what do I need to know?

If you are not running a UPnP streamer, you don't need the NAS/server that most use to store and serve music. You just need an internal or external drive on the computer connected to the DAC. Alternatively, there are quite a few proprietary setups that will connect to your DAC, such as the Naim Core, Innuos servers, etc. which will give you a neat one-box solution. 

ChrisSU posted:

If you are not running a UPnP streamer, you don't need the NAS/server that most use to store and serve music. You just need an internal or external drive on the computer connected to the DAC. Alternatively, there are quite a few proprietary setups that will connect to your DAC, such as the Naim Core, Innuos servers, etc. which will give you a neat one-box solution. 

Thanks but I want to move the hard drives out of the living room due to the slight but perceptible noise.  Also, I have a very large music collection there are no one-box solutions that won't include an external hard drive (or two, or three) not to mention that I prefer the Jriver interfaces.

Very simple, you can mount a folder on your nas and it can be accesssed on your Mac Mini as if it is an internal drive. That is how I store and play my music library.

Hi Ben -

The old (reputation of) fragility of Mac mini maintaining connection to a mounted network drive was mainly for wifi and almost always worst for TimeMachine (which had very bad behaviour when a target storage volume dropped). If you are wired and using the NAS volume for music, I think you’ll probably be fine. Worst case, remounting it when you launch the jriver interface will become second nature after a while I guess? I have a Mac mini and things sometimes go awol in finder, but rarely (I’d say never that I can recall) when they are in use with traffic. I had zero connectivity issues running Roon on the mini with the music folder on a NAS, for example. But I don’t run a streamer on the mini any more so take this as a user experience not a tech support reply!

Regards alan

ps - like you, I moved to the mini for entertainment and device connectivity and I really like it; we now also have a MacBook and it gets a lot of use at home and holiday. 

How old is the mini and how much music do you have.  Getting a nice NAS is not cheap.  You could just bag the whole external thing and get a new Mac mini with 1TB storage for like $700 US dollars

The large amount of storage you want rules out internal and/or USB drives, especially if you want the Mac Mini in the listening room where noise is an issue and silent SSD storage would be expensive. An easy solution if you don’t want to use UPnP would be Roon, as this would find a NAS hidden away elsewhere on your network, and play it directly from a USB or SPDIF connection from computer to DAC. (Not sure if JRiver can do this too as I haven’t used it.) Instead of a Mac Mini, you could also do this with an Innuos server via USB. You could also use a Unitiserve or a Core to play from a NAS rather than built in storage and connect via SPDIF. 

You haven’t indicated what you mean by ‘very large’ music collection, though I assume you mean considerably more than 1TB?

For my own collection I installed a pair of 1TB SSDs in a ‘late 2012’ MM, and first used it as a NAS, running Serviio UPnP media server (free software). It worked perfectly with the ND5XS I had at the time. I use it headless, no screen or keyboard (controlled from other device), and it is so simple an discrete that it just sits there unobtrusively and silent (MM does have a fan, but low speed and inaudible more than a couple of feet from the unit in a quiet room). it can even be turned off and on simply by pressing it on-off switch jipust like and piece of hifi kit, wpquite unlike a Windows computer.  However, my collection is only about 1200 albums, ~800GB, and bigger SSDs are pretty pricey, so that may not do for you.

MM can take additional external  drives attached through its ‘Thunderbolt’ bus connector, apparently performing exactly as internal drives, though I’ve no experience of it, and if in the same room as hifi and needing to be silent the cost of SSDs makes it expensive. But if used In a different room where the noise of HDDs doesn’t bother you then Thunderbolt could be the key to adding additional storage. Also that would not limit you to the older models (late 2012 I believe being the last one you could add RAM yourself as well as replacing the hard drive and adding a second one).

I later turned my MM into a store-renderer using Audirvana. I haven’t compared with JRiver, but the information available to me at the time indicated the sound quality of Audirvana to be the better of the two, perhaps because it can be better optimised, including a dedicated USB bus and a ‘direct mode’ bypassing the Mac’s own soundcard software. Certainly I have found sound quality excellent, and did once compare with a Melco N1A with no discernible difference in sound (brief comparison, through Dave DAC, Bryston 4B amp, PMC Fact 12 speakers, in dealer’s demo room with some acoustic treatment). I just with Audirvana’s library handling was better, as it doesn’t cope well with metadata not matching its expectation.

Hi again Ben -

im liking your thread and the suggestions and perspectives others are offering up. I’ve added this intro paragraph to my post at the end of writing it, since it has turned out to be long, rambling, and touches on both hardware and software aspects you might want to think about as you choose the next thing(s) to buy to round out your digital audio experience. Read what you wish, quit when you’re bored!!

I’m not really sure what your longer term operating plan is, never having used jriver... is that a local solution running on say the Mac mini and connected directly to your DAC via the optical digital input? Do you prefer direct connection for the audio, with network access limited to the way your player app accesses your music library, rather than streaming your network attached library over your network to your DAC using UPnP or Roon? I can’t see any technical reason for preferring one over the other given appropriate hardware, but if you are missing a bit of kit at one end or the other (eg a NAS capable of both storing and serving your music, or a DAC without a streamer) then you’d obviously have a preference accordingly. If the jriver interface is a “must”, then of course you’re committed to a path. I have found I’m less bothered by features now (having been streaming for a while) and like my new more flexible self haha.

I’ve tried a bunch of things and, generally speaking, have had really good success with respect to the interactions and the sound quality. You can try a bunch of things too, taking advantage of free trials for at least some of the software side solutions.

If you have a Naim network streamer, why not give the Naim app another chance? It has been improving slowly and steadily and seems to have most features for most folks. It is missing some specific things that bother some people and these pop up as forum topics with some regularity: very limited search function (a filter approach rather than a real search capability); play queue limit of 500 tracks (which makes all day “radio Ben” shuffling through your entire library a less satisfying experience than you’d have with an unlimited list); awkward volume slider is sometimes difficult to use especially on a phone rather than a tablet (no +/- control or pop-up large dial control yet implemented). The presentation of your local FLAC collection has more (everything) to do with the server-side UPnP functionality, and there are tons to choose from with Asset and Minim being among the most popular third party apps, and decent reviews of many of the natively-bundled servers like MusicStation on Synology boxes. There’s lots to do to customize the presentation given good metadata, and you can really dive into this nowadays. 

Roon is also a huge favourite among those who love it, but a bit of a mystery expense for those who don’t. It has quite a nice control interface that works with so-called Roon endpoints (same idea as a UPnP server needing a UPnP client, but on a proprietary protocol). The newest Naim Uniti series has the Endpoint capability built in; but Naim have announced that older boxes will not be getting the functionality added via firmware updates due to platform limitations. So if you have a Nova, Star, or Atom (or ND555 I guess!) then you are good to go once you choose a place on your network to put your Roon Core (the server) and your music library. The Mac mini and NAS can do this for sure (as I mentioned in my earlier reply), and then you can choose whether to have the mini connected directly (acting also as its own Roon Endpoint and providing output over the digital optical out), or serving over Ethernet.

If your DAC isn’t a Roon Endpoint or a streamer, it is very popular to add something for this functionality whether it’s a mini or something more purpose-specific. The one that intrigues me (but I don’t have one as I went the Nova route) is the DigiOne which is small, inexpensive, gets great reviews, and they’ve just announced an upcoming “Signature” model with a better clock and lower noise floor. I’m tempted just to play with it, but have other toys on the list for my play time at the moment...

Even though I was set up with Mac mini and NAS, when upgrading my 213+ Synology (now approaching end-of-support and to be dropped from future OS updates and improvements), I chose a 918+ model (4 bays, Intel Celeron) and have installed the Roon core on it, along with a bunch of other stuff (including the UPnP server, a primary copy of my ripped CD library, and some home network stuff like sparsebundles to enable TimeMachine backup for our three home Macs, etc). In spite of people on the Roon forum talking about much higher spec machines (like Intel NUC boxes, Mac minis, or i3/i5 NAS solutions from QNAP), I find that things work quite well for my modest needs. On my iPhone, I don’t find the Roon app to be much different than the Naim app - with the notable addition of the */- volume) and I don’t really use the surf and discover features of Roon; but on my iPad or even on the Mac (as client controller only), I follow the suggestions for exploration, the liner notes, the artist bios, etc., much more often: the Roon experience is much more accessible and immersive with the bigger screen real estate than on the phone, and it shows up on the way I interact. 

As others have pointed out, you are in the cusp of a purchase that is several hundred to a thousand dollars for the “network side” - whether that is a Mac mini (mainly driven by the death of your PC), a NAS, something else, or all of the above. Take your time to imagine what each bit will do for you, and how you want to interact with them. If the main driver is to replace your home computer, then the mini is a good way to go... but be aware that the recent Apple updates for other hardware has the entire mini fandom eagerly anticipating something new come September. Some would say awaiting new hardware is a fool’s game of course! As someone mentioned, the popularity of the late 2012 models (that’s also what I have) is due to their upgrade ability for RAM and disks, plus they still have among the best processors even though they are old! If you tinker, a used 2012 can be a good choice, but used prices are high as a result. My main family box is an i7 with 16 GB, a 500GB SDD system drive and the original 1TB HDD (mounted internally using a third party connection kit) and it is way better spec’d than we need for what we use it for. Better graphics - especially for photo editing and the like - is the main advantage of newer models... and the main reason folks like me are hoping for a “late 2018” model that brings real improvements (from Intel as well as Apple) to the table. 

Okay, that’s my Sunday morning thinking, unclear as it is. Spend your money wisely. Have fun. Most things work pretty well and do what they say pretty well. Take a long time and optimize your purchase or jump right in, make do with what you buy, and figure out what you want next after playing about for a while. It’s your call!

Best wishes for fun and success. 

Regards alan

Thank you for all the responses. 

We’re not a traditional TV household so far as we don’t watch any terrestrial channels.  Our TV serves only as a PC monitor to access Jriver, watch Netflix & Amazon, browse the internet and play chess etc. which is why we’re not on the market for other hardware. 

Software-wise, we prefer the customisation, features and iOS/Android apps for Jriver.  For instance, I like I listening to podcasts when I do the dishes and can do so on my wireless headphones via the PC’s optical out while my wife listens to music in the living room through the Hugo TT connected via USB at the same time.

The idea of a Mac mini initially appealed after connecting an older MacBook pro to take over media server duties.  The current Mac minis have roughly similar specifications and the form factor & “initial” price point was appealing (and it was good to hear they no longer have issues connecting to NAS).

However, it’s always been a goal to have a completely silent media PC and after some further consideration, realising that once you upgrade to the “fusion drive”, the Mac mini isn’t that much different to building a fanless media PC with SSD.

Having been used to SSD for day to day duties, I don’t think we could go back but given the current limitation and costs of SSD to store the entire library, a NAS drive (kept in another room) with HDDs is the best option.

Unfortunately building a fanless media PC with SSD It’s a little bit outside of our current budget so we’re thinking that we’ll liberate the drives within the PC to a NAS drive enclosure and continue to use our laptops in the meantime.  Luckily I have an external hard drive docking station that will enable us to access our favourite albums while we shop around for a NAS drive enclosure.

Thanks again for the responses!