Power first not source!!

Yes, source first is not only about the source (i.e player)

Small items all add up, resulting in a big improvement.

Sorry but I’m not going to pay ND555 prices for mains products

analogmusic posted:

Sorry but I’m not going to pay ND555 prices for mains products

Exactly how we all feel about it, but you should try to hear these Ansuz  products, nobody likes to spend this money on wires and a box, but  people end up doing it anyway because of the sq you get for the money. 

Claus  

analogmusic posted:

Sorry but I’m not going to pay ND555 prices for mains products

Entirely up to you.  Good stuff can be at low cost. I found a power distributor block that is really good at the local store. Just 3€ 

I advice you all to compare loads of low cost stuff, some are really REALLY good!

You could argue that it's still a source first arrangement. Given that the power outlet comes ferore the first musical source component, which itself could be a power supply. At those prices it's unlikely for me but never say never. I was backed into a Musicworks Megablock because my mains spur didn't end up with the number of sockets I wanted. The clean up effect was somewhat akin, and of similar magnitude to putting it all on Fraim. For ND555 money I'd want an ND555 level upgrade, on top of the existing ND555. I don't know if this is possible but if it is, I'd love to hear it.

Surely it will all depend on a) the quality of the mains supply, which includes whatever is in the home if you don’t have a dedicated supply for the hifi (and possibly still affected, though minimised as far as possible, even if you do), and indeed the quality of power as supplied to the house, and b) the susceptibility of individual system components, which is likely to vary with design and so from brand to brand or even model to model. So what could npmake a massive difference for one person, for someone else even with the same system but with different supply it could be a very minor difference, ditto different systems in the same home.

For ND555 money I’d want a 552 first, then probably a 555 and a 500 and speakers that maintain the Naim’s comunicative abilities, the cables can wait until they can be assessed in that context.

I know a guy from the Dynaudio Forum (Octadyn) that uses Ansuz products.His system consists of a Unitiserve feeding a Aavik U 300 integrated,and Raidho D 3.1s.This puts his gear at approx 100k US (list price),so in my eyes,mega-buck.He uses the Mainz 8,with DTC power cords,speaker cables,and digital cable.I think this adds around 30-40k to the cost of his system.He swears it is a HUGE upgrade,I have not heard it myself though.Three other members of that forum went to Chicago to hear these Ansuz products,and all of them said it was a HUGE upgrade also.I believe these guys,they have no affiliation with the company,or reason to lie to me.The guy who promotes these cables (Lars) used to work for Nordost,I use their QB-8 power block.The technology is different than a basic power cord,it is based on grounding,and some tech used in submarines I guess, I am no expert,so don’t quote me on this.I intend on taking a trip to Chicago within the next year or so,to hear the Kudos 505s,and New Dyn Confidence 20 when they are released.The Ansuz products will be on my list of products to demo on the trip,even though they are priced way above what I could see spending.Octadyn tells me,once you hear what they do,there is no going back.

It is hard to find good information on the technical ideas behind the Ansuz cables and mains block. This review is some of the best I have found. The demo he was at is the same I have tried twice. When you listen to the technical explanations behind cables and the darkz, you could almost believe that the demo was done by a person from Naim. I believe this is one part of the explanation why Naim and Ansuz work so well together. as you can see they also use a Naim system as part of the standard demo. The trick with not revealing the system to the people at the demo is a good one, but unfortunately now not a secret anymore.

At the time this demo was held, the new series of cables, but more importantly the new

mains block did not exist, so if he was impressed by the old mainz8D this is hugely improved by the Main d2 as I described in my first post: He writes:

The most impressiv amongst them though were the Mainz8 D-Level power distributor and Sparkz Dtc harmonizer.  

https://www.monoandstereo.com/...-depth-overview.html

Claus

This thread is very disappointing. The few years I've been on this forum it's been Naim is best plugged in directly to the wall with no power distribution used. It kills the Naim PRAT. Now we have this fancy Ansuz equipment that is getting love on the Naim forum. WTH?! That said my dealer has said in the past the Mainz D8 would be a great upgrade. Hell I even al it's bought one a couple years back to use with my Uniti 2 and other AV gear. Now that I'm happy with my current setup I may need to look into one again. However the price of the Mainz and added price of the power cables is a tough price to get past. Knowing the higher end power cables work better and even longer lengths of those already expensive cables work better makes the investment question ones sanity. Lol. Got to love this hobby. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Surely it will all depend on a) the quality of the mains supply, which includes whatever is in the home if you don’t have a dedicated supply for the hifi (and possibly still affected, though minimised as far as possible, even if you do), and indeed the quality of power as supplied to the house.

 

The quality supplied to my flat is in the real world not something you just change, especially not living in a flat. I hav a seperate earthf  the 2 wall sockets that is used for hifi, but the sockets are not on a dedicated supply. Since I live in Denmark the way the setup works as I understand it is much  different than in UK, and reading up on dedicated supply in a few Danish forums seems to generate doubts about how a dedicated supply should be made, and what can be done in terms of what is allowed. I will talk with my dealer about this. If power cables and a distribution block can make such a difference it makes sense to optimize the power that goes into the cable. Of course I need to build my own  powerplant to solve all these problems! I just need a place for it.

Claus

Oh,. I thought they are cables and distribution boards, not conditioners. That might explain the cost? I wouldn't be in a hurry to fit a mains conditioner but again, one should never be rigidly dogmatic. Nothing is entirely black and white.

So far as distribution devices go, when I last visited the factory, Naim were working on one.  It used PL parts and was a Leggo like model where 13amp socket bricks could be added to expand the array. And lest we forget, the better regarded mains blocks (not conditioners) are scrupulously built and star earthed, just like the Hydra. I'm not aware of Naim cautioning against distribution blocks. Could be wrong though.

Hi Claus - I'm George

Part 1 of 2

Ansuz is something else. I have been to demos at private homes where Lars was demoing their products. Also was at Axpona this year where did 1 cable/power distribution demo on the last day. The 1st demo was the original Mainz products. Soulution electronics and Raidho D5 speakers.  Lars started with a full C loom and 1 MainzD8. He started by putting a D from the wall to the D8 and added D cables throughout 1 at time starting with power cables. With each cable you could hear a level of richness  and layers of resolution you would not think the system was capable of. The biggest changes were with the power cords followed by interconnects and finally speaker cables. Since Lars had left Nordost and Nordost always preached 4M (and multiples) are Ideal lengths especially in speaker cables I asked why. His answer was he had no idea. But that's when he pulled out a 4M power cord and put it from the wall to MainzD8. If I didn't hear that it sounded even better again I would not have believed it. At that time I couldn't wrap my head around the pricing. Lars added some Sparkz in the D8 and in various non-dedicated wall outlets throughout the room. You could hear slight improvements but once he added the 5th and 6th Sparks something didn't sound right. They seemed to have degraded the wonderful improvements we all heard and started taking them out. After they were out he added a 2nd D8 in a different dedicated outlet and we all heard another improvement (the 1st D8 was full). That's when I realized what the Mainz actually was capable of. I felt sorry for the owner of that system because when Lars left he had to go back to his C loom.  He said he knew because Lars had already did a private demo before anyone got there. Now Lars did Darkz Diamonds under various components and honestly I really had to 'squint' to hear any differences. I was the only one in the room who didn't hear any difference when he added the Darkz under the speaker cables.

As time went on and the Aavik U300 was released is when I made the plunge to the U300 with MainzD8 and 2 'C' cables. I replaced my Octave V110 integrated and nDac with p/s but kept the Unitiserve. I replaced it all at once and never played with my old cables and new ones. I had the Raidho D1's at the time. Later upgraded to the D2's. I also upgraded my Nordost original Frey speaker cables with C cables because I needed longer lengths. When I installed them I was shocked. I didn't hear a difference!! I was really disappointed and these cables were well broken in. For grins and giggles I put in 1 Nordost and 1 Ansuz. Now I heard the difference. Because I just was focused on listening for a difference in tonality. The Ansuz side was a more open and deeper like 3D sound. I learned a lot that day. 

Later I upgraded to the D2 speakers. Then I get a call from my local dealer (Tyler) saying Lars is flying in and would like to come and say Hi. Of course. A couple of hours later it hit me. Ansuz just announced D-TC. They came straight from the airport and Lars had a coupe of big suitcases he brought in. Lars had the prototype 2M D-TC power cord. So first Lars pushed my D2's until they popped and backed it off a hair (pre-pop). Then he put in the D-TC power cord from the wall to MainzD8. Playing the same track over again the first thing that jumped out at me was the noise floor dropped to a level I didn't know was possible. The music and vocals had so much more air between the instruments I and Tyler never realized the U300 and the D2's were capable of. Now the shocker. Lars cranked the music up again until the speakers popped. This time the music was almost twice as loud. How could a power cord do that. Well for starters The D-TC is a circuit that dithers away noise like Navy uses in submarines for eliminating ocean noise to hear a 'ping' from hundreds of miles away.  Still not sure why that matters but if I had to guess the power supply in the amp can't stop rf and hf that is on mains and gets passed on to the amp section. Which I'm guessing gets added to the music even though you can't hear it. He then added 3 prototype Darkz D-TC's under the Aavik. That's when I truly heard 3D sound in my home.  Then he swapped out the 2M cord for a 4M. Nice improvement but at a 50% premium that's hard to swallow. Something else that amazed me is the music lost any PrAT. Later I upgraded to the D2.1 speakers

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

It is hard to find good information on the technical ideas behind the Ansuz cables and mains block. This review is some of the best I have found. The demo he was at is the same I have tried twice. When you listen to the technical explanations behind cables and the darkz, you could almost believe that the demo was done by a person from Naim. I believe this is one part of the explanation why Naim and Ansuz work so well together. as you can see they also use a Naim system as part of the standard demo. The trick with not revealing the system to the people at the demo is a good one, but unfortunately now not a secret anymore.

At the time this demo was held, the new series of cables, but more importantly the new

mains block did not exist, so if he was impressed by the old mainz8D this is hugely improved by the Main d2 as I described in my first post: He writes:

The most impressiv amongst them though were the Mainz8 D-Level power distributor and Sparkz Dtc harmonizer.  

 

https://www.monoandstereo.com/...-depth-overview.html

 

Claus

hello Claus, the mainz 8 D is a passive power block, like nordost q8, or a power conditionner like the ones of shunyata or isotek?    

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

analogmusic posted:

Sorry but I’m not going to pay ND555 prices for mains products

 

Exactly how we all feel about it, but you should try to hear these Ansuz  products, nobody likes to spend this money on wires and a box, but  people end up doing it anyway because of the sq you get for the money. 

Claus  

Time is money. Not going to audition something I will never buy. 

analogmusic posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

analogmusic posted:

Sorry but I’m not going to pay ND555 prices for mains products

 

Exactly how we all feel about it, but you should try to hear these Ansuz  products, nobody likes to spend this money on wires and a box, but  people end up doing it anyway because of the sq you get for the money. 

Claus  

Time is money. Not going to audition something I will never buy. 

But what if Chord made it?

French Rooster posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

It is hard to find good information on the technical ideas behind the Ansuz cables and mains block. This review is some of the best I have found. The demo he was at is the same I have tried twice. When you listen to the technical explanations behind cables and the darkz, you could almost believe that the demo was done by a person from Naim. I believe this is one part of the explanation why Naim and Ansuz work so well together. as you can see they also use a Naim system as part of the standard demo. The trick with not revealing the system to the people at the demo is a good one, but unfortunately now not a secret anymore.

At the time this demo was held, the new series of cables, but more importantly the new

mains block did not exist, so if he was impressed by the old mainz8D this is hugely improved by the Main d2 as I described in my first post: He writes:

The most impressiv amongst them though were the Mainz8 D-Level power distributor and Sparkz Dtc harmonizer.  

 

https://www.monoandstereo.com/...-depth-overview.html

 

Claus

hello Claus, the mainz 8 D is a passive power block, like nordost q8, or a power conditionner like the ones of shunyata or isotek?    

I believe it's a passive device, but with those sparkz jobbies plugged in makes it an attenuated passive device. Same as the q8 and adding those Quantum AC enhancer and line harmonizer jobbies plugged into unused sockets.

Part 2

Forgot to mention in part 1 what Ansuz did with their power cords is a bit different than other manufacturers. First they concentrate on ground. I can't remember if Lars said the ground is 10 or 20mm. Second they cut the inductance in half compared to the Nordost Odin2.  It's the inductance that can rob your amp of power especially when in high demand. Mike Borresen did design the Odin2.

I did get a 3M D-TC power cord for the wall to MainzD8. Oh great I get another call from Tyler and Lars is back in town. This time he came to my home with some Version 2 cables. He had the prototype A2 - C2 power cords and C2 speaker cables. He said the D2 was still being developed. Now before this Tyler 'borrowed' my C power cord going from the MainzD8 to U300 and replaced it with a D. Yeah it was IMO an in home sales demo. Had it for about 45 days. When he took it out I really didn't miss it all that much. For the money the C was the sweet spot in the line up. Lars put the A2 in from the MainzD8 to the U300. The music sounded so much more natural and even more open. IMO huge step up over the the original D. Then he replaced the A2 with a C2. This was a very significant change for the better unlike with the original cables. Then he put in the C2 speaker cables. Not expecting much I was pretty surprised how much better it got again with each step sounding more open and airy.  It seemed as if the PrAT got even better. I was so disappointed when Lars took them out. Also had to wait almost a full year before they went into production. I ordered the C2 power cord.

Shortly after getting the C2 power cord I borrowed the D2 power cord and it was significantly better than the C2. Then Ansuz announced the Mainz D-TC. I was considering the D3.1's at that time. Mike and Lars were flying in to demo the new Mainz at Tyler's. While waiting for everyone to arrive I commented to Lars they are going to have a hard time selling the D-TC power cord. Lars laughed and said just wait for the demo. There were 2 friends that came said wire can't make any difference but wanted to hear this flagship setup. The system was Aavik mono amps - pre - with a Naim Cd X2 or 3 player driving Raidho D5.1's. It was a full D-TC loom. When they started they took out the D-TC power cord from the wall to mainzd8 and replaced it with X cable. Played a couple of tracks it sounded fantastic. It should have after all that system was just north of 500K USD with the D-TC loom. They replaced the X with the A2 then C2 and finally the D-TC.  Which each power cable change the difference was significant. Then with the D-TC cable in they pushed the D5.1's until they popped and backed it down a hair. They replaced the MainzD8 with the Mainz D-TC. Just like when I first heard the D-TC power cord the noise floor cratered again. The sound got a lot more 3D sounding too. Yep you guessed it - we could play that same track again almost twice as loud before popping. When it was over my 2 friends who said wire can't make any difference were shocked that they could hear such a difference with wire. I did pre order the Mainz D-TC. In fact I have S/N 3.

I guess this should be part 3

At Axpona in the Aavik/Ansuz/Raidho room they demoed Raidho D1.1's Aavik U150 with a D2 loom. Sounded so much better than the previous year where they had D1.1's with Aavik monos - pre and a full D-TC loom. Yes the room was bigger this year vs last year but something really different and better. It was they daisy chained 2 Mainz D-TC power distribution boxes. I asked Lars if 3 D-TC's daisy changed would be even better. On the last day I brought in mine. I could clearly hear nice improvement but not quite as much as adding a second one. Shortly after the show I ordered the D3.1's. Tyler even got Raidho to send me pictures of the cabinets in walnut burl since I had upgraded to 3 other D series speakers. I could pick out the ones I wanted.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

Talk about a long winded post

s

hello Claus, the mainz 8 D is a passive power block, like nordost q8, or a power conditionner like the ones of shunyata or isotek?    

I believe it's a passive device, but with those sparkz jobbies plugged in makes it an attenuated passive device. Same as the q8 and adding those Quantum AC enhancer and line harmonizer jobbies plugged into unused sockets.

I am not going to pretend I understand the explanations Ansuz offers. However Lars and Frits are very clear in terms of not wanting any conditioning of the power! The Sparkkz are also I inside the Mainz distribution blocks. As I understand it more sparkz are adde din the more expensive models, and with the 2 line, something has changed over regular sparkz, but don't ask  me what that is, however something inside the double sized new 2 Mainz distibution blocks have changed over the first generation blocks.

The nice thing with an active system is that all 8 socket are used, so no unused sockets that asks for more sparkz.

Claus  

It's great that some folks are putting time and effort on this aspect of system installation and finding positive results.

Although really disappointed that this Lars chap is now demonstrating Ansuz products instead of Nordost.   The average belt and braced up audiophile is only going to infer this change as Kowtowing to the highest payroll rather than any professional integrity. Further adding flame to the snake oil fire pit.

Octa_dyn posted:

Part 2

Forgot to mention in part 1 what Ansuz did with their power cords is a bit different than other manufacturers. First they concentrate on ground. I can't remember if Lars said the ground is 10 or 20mm. Second they cut the inductance in half compared to the Nordost Odin2.  It's the inductance that can rob your amp of power especially when in high demand. Mike Borresen did design the Odin2.

I did get a 3M D-TC power cord for the wall to MainzD8. Oh great I get another call from Tyler and Lars is back in town. This time he came to my home with some Version 2 cables. He had the prototype A2 - C2 power cords and C2 speaker cables. He said the D2 was still being developed. Now before this Tyler 'borrowed' my C power cord going from the MainzD8 to U300 and replaced it with a D. Yeah it was IMO an in home sales demo. Had it for about 45 days. When he took it out I really didn't miss it all that much. For the money the C was the sweet spot in the line up. Lars put the A2 in from the MainzD8 to the U300. The music sounded so much more natural and even more open. IMO huge step up over the the original D. Then he replaced the A2 with a C2. This was a very significant change for the better unlike with the original cables. Then he put in the C2 speaker cables. Not expecting much I was pretty surprised how much better it got again with each step sounding more open and airy.  It seemed as if the PrAT got even better. I was so disappointed when Lars took them out. Also had to wait almost a full year before they went into production. I ordered the C2 power cord.

Shortly after getting the C2 power cord I borrowed the D2 power cord and it was significantly better than the C2. Then Ansuz announced the Mainz D-TC. I was considering the D3.1's at that time. Mike and Lars were flying in to demo the new Mainz at Tyler's. While waiting for everyone to arrive I commented to Lars they are going to have a hard time selling the D-TC power cord. Lars laughed and said just wait for the demo. There were 2 friends that came said wire can't make any difference but wanted to hear this flagship setup. The system was Aavik mono amps - pre - with a Naim Cd X2 or 3 player driving Raidho D5.1's. It was a full D-TC loom. When they started they took out the D-TC power cord from the wall to mainzd8 and replaced it with X cable. Played a couple of tracks it sounded fantastic. It should have after all that system was just north of 500K USD with the D-TC loom. They replaced the X with the A2 then C2 and finally the D-TC.  Which each power cable change the difference was significant. Then with the D-TC cable in they pushed the D5.1's until they popped and backed it down a hair. They replaced the MainzD8 with the Mainz D-TC. Just like when I first heard the D-TC power cord the noise floor cratered again. The sound got a lot more 3D sounding too. Yep you guessed it - we could play that same track again almost twice as loud before popping. When it was over my 2 friends who said wire can't make any difference were shocked that they could hear such a difference with wire. I did pre order the Mainz D-TC. In fact I have S/N 3.

I guess this should be part 3

At Axpona in the Aavik/Ansuz/Raidho room they demoed Raidho D1.1's Aavik U150 with a D2 loom. Sounded so much better than the previous year where they had D1.1's with Aavik monos - pre and a full D-TC loom. Yes the room was bigger this year vs last year but something really different and better. It was they daisy chained 2 Mainz D-TC power distribution boxes. I asked Lars if 3 D-TC's daisy changed would be even better. On the last day I brought in mine. I could clearly hear nice improvement but not quite as much as adding a second one. Shortly after the show I ordered the D3.1's. Tyler even got Raidho to send me pictures of the cabinets in walnut burl since I had upgraded to 3 other D series speakers. I could pick out the ones I wanted.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

The dtc prices in cables aand darkz are really out of this world! When I bought the mainz8 d2 block I for a short  time thought this was the top of the line block, but no there is the dtc, at more than double the price! My dealer says that with the dtc you get about 90 percent of the dtc performance for a good price.

The reason why I ccan afford to switch to Ansuz cables iis that my dealer bought of all the s stock of the old c and d models, when the c2 and d2 was introduced, so he can offer them at good prices, so I am sad to hear that the d2 cable is so much better than the original d version I am going to buy. However the switch from c to d from the wall to the mains block was dramatic at my friends place, but that is with a full Naim active setup, and that may explain the difference. As I wrote putting a c power cable on my 252 supercap was a huge improvement, so I am looking forward to see what happens when I put power cables on my other supercap and the 555 used on my Ndac.

The change from c to D at my friends place was a significant upgrade. This is a person that came from all regular Naim cables 4 weeks ago, to 1   D cable and 2 c cables. He still find it  crazy but he called yesterday raving about what these cables has done to  his system.

Claus

Claus have you heard the A2 power cable compared to the original D? How does the price compare? I would think the A2 is less expensive. The A2 retails for 3195 USD for 2M and the pre-owned prices I see for sale or in the 5K range for 2M.

Octa_dyn posted:

Claus have you heard the A2 power cable compared to the original D? How does the price compare? I would think the A2 is less expensive. The A2 retails for 3195 USD for 2M and the pre-owned prices I see for sale or in the 5K range for 2M.

When we do  the home demos we are only listening to the old series cables,  because of the attractive price. If my dealer thought a2 was better than C he would have brought them. His shop is very close to the Ansuz factory so unless they have no cables available he can just drive up there and get the cables he needs.