Power first not source!!

Posted by: Claus-Thoegersen on 18 August 2018

My latest unwanted upgrades has been all about power, and I am more and more leaning to a view of that source first is dead unless the source is the first powwer cable and your mains block. After a demo at Ansuz acoustics over a year ago, I changed mains block from Isotek to Mainz8D from Ansuz, and that was an improvement. Last year my dealer had a Ansuz Mainz Ceramic power cable, at a  very good price. So the powerline used from the wall socket was changed with the Ceramic cable, proving that the first power cable is the most important one. 2 months back I was at Ansuz again with a group of my Friends, all of them have Naim gear and Audiovector speakers. At that time I heard the new Mainz models, and decided I would try a home demo of the mainz8 c2, even though the idea of spending so much on a power block is hard to justify rationally. When we changed the mainz8 to the c2 model, something strange happened. We had to turn down the volume to listen to the music at the same volume as before. How a passive block can make your system play louder at the same volume setting is really strange. Of course it was not only louder also better, like a box upgrade, and one of the serious upgrades.
Well this should be it  I thought, but a few of mhy friends that was at the Ansuz demo, also wanted to see what Darkz could do under speakers and racks, and play around with power cables.

My dealer is sometimes able to get a good  deal on the Ansuz products but it is still really expensive! Well I had the power cables I needed so no financial problems with a demo, where you spend other people's money, d listen to music and drink beer. That was until my dealer started to change the standard power  cables from the Mainz block to the supercap for the 282 in the system, and afterwards also the Hicap used for the Snaxo used with Audiovector sr6. It was clear that this also was a huge improvement.
Ok so I suddenly needed 2 new power cables for my 2 supercaps since the powerlines now surely sounded  terribly broken! Unfortunately it did not stop there! My dealer suggested we should try a Mainz d2 cable from the wall instead of the c2 modelled that was used. Everybody agreed that we could try this but nobody would ever even think about buying this  cable, not even at a good price. 30 minutes later my friend  decided that  it would be impossible to remove the cable and go back to the old c2 instead.
All of us at this demo yesterday agree that had somebody suggested that we would spend more money on power cables and mains blocks than on our pre and source, we would have dismissed it as madness.
The only problem is that  all 3 of us are going to do that anyway if we can find the money for it.

 

I was able to get another c2 cable yesterday, so this afternoonI spend time playing music and then changing the powerline on my 252 with the c2 cable. The improvement was bigger than on my friends 282, I would say much bigger. This is probably because of the Mainz8 c2, compared to one of the smaller Mainz models my friend is using, or it could be because the supercap just makes the 252 even better than the 282?  

 

If you look at the Danish ansuz prices, a c2 power cable and the c2 Mainz8 block cost close to what the nd555 cost, without power supplies!!! However everybody with bigger systems really should try to demo these Ansuz products! it may very well change your upgrade path plans!

 

Claus

 

Posted on: 28 August 2018 by Claus-Thoegersen
yeti42 posted:

“the deals are only available now”

This does rather ring a few alarm bells, it smacks of pressure sales tactics

 

You do not know my dealer and no this is not sales tactics, other than every sale of an item involves sales tactics.

Your description of the effect makes no mention of enhancing the musical communication, just the hifi aspects. Can you better hear a chamber ensemble interacting or just the individual lines, is there emotion being triggered by the music, can it swing?

Yes yes and yes. It was the short description and finding words  that makes sense for everybody is almost impossible.

 

Is there a 500 series system available for comparison to the 282 etc with magic cables? Preferably not one set up by the cable merchant.

 

So you distrust all systems setup by any dealer? since the dealer is always the merchant?

No 500 system available, this is not standard in Denmark I am not even sure the distributor has one. In active systems going 500 would be even more expensive, even  3 300s would be more expensive. With a system that only uses digital sources I am not going to consider a 552 until I know what happens with a new dac or an 372 or what comes after the new launch of the streamers.

 

Having heard 3 close to identical systems 2 with 282 and my own with 252 I can here that the improvements are bigger the better the systems are. It is not entirely fair since I have a much better distribution block than is used in the other 2 systems, and it may be the case that the bigger powersupplies benefits more from the cables.

 

Claus

Posted on: 28 August 2018 by Claus-Thoegersen
French Rooster posted:

This thread is specially focusing on anzus products.  The title should be “ anzus first, not source”.   It would be interesting to have some other brands to compare or share the experience, like synergetic research, kharma, chord music or sarum t power cords, audioquest…

 

Yes I agree but as far as I know you cannot change this after the thread is created. I think very few dealers have all these cables availabel at the same time. My dealer has Ansuz and Chord and I do not believe the Sarum T is availabel. The same with the new Naim cables that I cannot remember the name of.

 

Claus

Posted on: 28 August 2018 by Claus-Thoegersen

To get away from the hardware talk  here is part of my test track list.
Nicolas Meiers, Silence Talks a 24 bit Naim release. The track used is Turquoise. A fantastic track jazz infused with a turkish flavor. It starts out simple but ends up being very complex, a fantastic test track and a fantastic track!
Michel Camilo and Tomatito, Spain Forever. One of my friends went to a concert with them, and since I was not there, I had to buy the record instead. All tracks are good but Armando's Rhumba is very good  to test for prat and again a good track.
Sara Bareilles Brave Enough, 24 bit from hdtracks, and it seems hard to find other than at hdtracks. We used the first track Love on the rocks it is always good to test with live records.
Jimmy Witherspoon  Live at the mint, Past 40 blues. Again a live track that has been on my test track playlist for years. A live cd that has not been destroyed in the mastering process.
Kari Bremnes Gåte ved gåte. If you can live with lyrics in Norwegian this is a fantastic record like most others she has released, even though I prefer the older records to the last 2 she has released.
Eva Cassedy Live at blues alley, this has also been on my list for years.

Of course I have played a lot of other tracks, and the enhancements are the same no matter what music I play, as I wrote even on internet radio at 128 kbps, and with modern terrible recordings I hear the same enhancements.
 

Claus

Posted on: 29 August 2018 by alanbass1
Dave J posted:

But Alan, you’ve already spent tons on SL, you’re already playing the game...

Yes I have.  Got the black boxes I was after and, after listening long and hard, saw the value in the SLs in my system.  I wasn't saying people shouldn't go for it if they have the system and the money, but.......I would be very interested in hearing a ND555/PS555/NAC552/NAP500/SLs (or similar) combination with Naims Power Cables, versus an NDS/PS555/NAC252/SC/NAP300/SLs (or similar) combination with high end Anzus Power Cables.  Which from my reckoning will cost about the same. And that's without the distribution block which if felt essential to the power first challenge would reduce the Anzus system to a NDX/XPS/282/HiCap level system from a cost comparison perspective.  Whilst limitations in a power supply can stop equipment performing at their optimum, the limitations in the equipment itself will mean that there is only so much a component is able to give. 

 

Posted on: 29 August 2018 by Octa_dyn
alanbass1 posted:
Dave J posted:

But Alan, you’ve already spent tons on SL, you’re already playing the game...

Yes I have.  Got the black boxes I was after and, after listening long and hard, saw the value in the SLs in my system.  I wasn't saying people shouldn't go for it if they have the system and the money, but.......I would be very interested in hearing a ND555/PS555/NAC552/NAP500/SLs (or similar) combination with Naims Power Cables, versus an NDS/PS555/NAC252/SC/NAP300/SLs (or similar) combination with high end Anzus Power Cables.  Which from my reckoning will cost about the same. And that's without the distribution block which if felt essential to the power first challenge would reduce the Anzus system to a NDX/XPS/282/HiCap level system from a cost comparison perspective.  Whilst limitations in a power supply can stop equipment performing at their optimum, the limitations in the equipment itself will mean that there is only so much a component is able to give

 

Like I mentioned earlier when I first heard the Ansuz D-TC power cord it went from the wall to my MainzD8 power distribution. Something that shocked me besides the lower noise floor was we could play the music almost twice as loud. That was a demo in my home with the prototype cable (20K for 2M USD retail). That said with the Mainz D-TC power distribution you can play almost twice as loud again (23K USD retail). Yes I own both

Posted on: 29 August 2018 by DrPo

A first comment: as the thread is not Ansuz specific my input to the OP  is “yes indeed!”: I have not managed to hear significant differences in my system between the NDX and other DACs, neither am I consistently able to discern high res from red book  or WAV from FLAC...I can however consistently hear differences between different amps or speakers but as far as “source first” is concerned I only understand it if the power element is included in the equation.

I was in fact vehemently rejecting the notion of considering expensive power cords until I tried a Nordost Vrahma at home. And then I changed my mind.

Regarding Ansuz: the person from whom I got my amp has switched from Nordost to Ansuz (that’s how I managed to get hold of an Odin cable...).

I cannot afford to buy Ansuz (new at least) but I am not surprised at all at the OP’s input and feedback.