Tidal versus Qobuz

In my view there are 3 main distinct “tasks”:

1. Find music based on complex selection criteria like NBPF said

2. Organize your favorites 

3. Be up to speed with new releases in genres where one is interested in (in my case, classical).

(1) was already commented by NBPF. I somehow survive with a single complex query but it is frustrating and not always successful. To do this properly you need very good metadata in the database plus robust searching algorithms. Room for improvement here on all streaming services 

With respect to (2) I find both Tidal and Qobuz (and for that matter Spotify as well although I don’t use it anymore) wanting: all you get is a flat list, no categorization capabilities unless you organize in playlists which I dont really like or do. This is for me the biggest drawback of streaming services versus locally stored music; I would welcome opinions from fellow forum members on this.

On the other hand I much prefer Qobuz when it comes to (3): discovering new music. With Qobuz i See on a weekly basis all new classical releases and I spend quite some portion of my listening time to check them out. I have found quite a few I really liked and purchased the hi res version of with my sublime discount. No way to browse new classical music on Tidal...

Dr Po- if you are trying to get Qobuz to work using Bubble, you need to enable the NDX as an open home renderer in Bubble itself. I have Bubble on my QNAP, so that’s where I did it. The NDX will then appear on Lumin. Incidentally I couldn’t get on with Lumin, so use Linn Kazoo.

As HH says... this is the screen on the Bubbleserver setup

You should point to the fact that there is the bubble upnp app that is running on an android phone or tablet. And that there is the bubble upnp server that is running on the NAS or a PC.

Here you need the server to configure the openhome proxy for for your upnp streamer.

The app is "only" to control the whole stuff (browsing music, controlling the playlist and the streamer).

Thanks HH Simon and Gert. I run a BubbleUpnp server on my SoTM SMS 200. I don’t see the option to list the NDX there (there were no config options at all in fact) but it dawned on me to invoke the buble UPNP server using the SMS 200 IP + the default port 58050 and indeed worked (also with Lumin). Brilliant!

That’s great. It will be interesting to see how you get on. 

Well I got stuck on the most base thing: my LUMIN app does not show the streaming options to login to Qobuz :-) ... it should be in the same tab as the genres etc filters. 

Try loading Kazoo, which is much easier. 

To set up the login in lumin click the right most icon (gear). I have to translate the settings menu from german. So probably it will be different in english...

At the top there is the menu title "Settings" Below anothwr title "Lumin". The next item iis the streamer. And below the streamer you can choose another item. Here you find the qobuz settings.

Thanks both! I have managed now to have NDX as renderer and Qobuz as “source” both in LUMIN and Kazoo, still have some issues with being able to actually play what I select from Qobuz...but this is not the point of the OP so I will keep quiet :–)

likesmusic posted:

nbpf posted

It is not so much a problem of how their collection is presented, the main problem is how the set of albums that one has marked as favourites can be browsed. For classical music it is essential for me to be able to select a composer (say Sibelius), a work (say his violin concert) and see all albums that contain Sibelius' violin concert and that I have marked as favourite. This is easily done with my collection but apparently undoable in Qobuz. I agree that the Qobuz collection is vast and interesting but since I cannot browse it the way I like, I have been using it less and less. Hence the decision to cancel my subscription. 

But Qobuz does let you search your favourites for “Sibelius Violin Concerto” or indeed any other free text. You can do this in the ioS, OS x and Windows Qobuz apps for sure. You can similarly search all of Qobuz, or your offline library, or your playlists, or your offline playlists. Perhaps it is your chosen control point that does not let you do this, in which case it is unfair of you to criticise Qobuz for something that is in fact an inadequacy of your chosen 3rd party control point/server.  Furthermore playlists offer interesting possibilities of organising your music, because unlike albums you can choose the name and the order.

I do not want to have to enter any text in order to select a set of albums from my favourites or from the whole Qobuz library and I do not want to manage playlists. It is not a problem of 3rd party control points, the Qobuz app for Android lacks essential metadata for classical music and, as a consequence, the capability of selecting (not entering), for instance, a composer from a composer list, a work (composition) from a list of the compositions of that composer and finally an album containing that composition. This is easily done with a UPnP server and a well-tagged collection. Without the possibility of marking and browsing a music collection the way I like, I have found the Qobuz experience more distracting than inspiring. I will follow how Qobuz, Tidal, Idagio, etc. evolve and I would be pleased to pay an extra fee for a better browsing experience. For the time being, however, I have cancelled my subscriptions.   

NBPF, How about sending a feedback to Qobuz and see what they say? I am interested.

nbpf posted:

likesmusic posted:

nbpf posted

It is not so much a problem of how their collection is presented, the main problem is how the set of albums that one has marked as favourites can be browsed. For classical music it is essential for me to be able to select a composer (say Sibelius), a work (say his violin concert) and see all albums that contain Sibelius' violin concert and that I have marked as favourite. This is easily done with my collection but apparently undoable in Qobuz. I agree that the Qobuz collection is vast and interesting but since I cannot browse it the way I like, I have been using it less and less. Hence the decision to cancel my subscription. 

But Qobuz does let you search your favourites for “Sibelius Violin Concerto” or indeed any other free text. You can do this in the ioS, OS x and Windows Qobuz apps for sure. You can similarly search all of Qobuz, or your offline library, or your playlists, or your offline playlists. Perhaps it is your chosen control point that does not let you do this, in which case it is unfair of you to criticise Qobuz for something that is in fact an inadequacy of your chosen 3rd party control point/server.  Furthermore playlists offer interesting possibilities of organising your music, because unlike albums you can choose the name and the order.

I do not want to have to enter any text in order to select a set of albums from my favourites or from the whole Qobuz library and I do not want to manage playlists. It is not a problem of 3rd party control points, the Qobuz app for Android lacks essential metadata for classical music and, as a consequence, the capability of selecting (not entering), for instance, a composer from a composer list, a work (composition) from a list of the compositions of that composer and finally an album containing that composition. This is easily done with a UPnP server and a well-tagged collection. Without the possibility of marking and browsing a music collection the way I like, I have found the Qobuz experience more distracting than inspiring. I will follow how Qobuz, Tidal, Idagio, etc. evolve and I would be pleased to pay an extra fee for a better browsing experience. For the time being, however, I have cancelled my subscriptions.   

When I type "Sibelius Violin Concerto" into the search bar on Qobuz, which takes about 5 seconds, I get a choice of 140 cds. Truly wonderful. It is so sad that you cut yourself off from such effortlessly achieved riches because you aren't prepared to type two or three words.  Quite probably scanning and selecting from a set of lists as you are used to would take longer. Metadata for classical music is poor, and it will continue to be poor. Even if it was good, it will never be the way you want it. You just have to live with it. I had a well tagged classical collection which I could browse using sophisticated searches. I hardly miss it. I can open my (digital) copy of the Gramophone when it comes every month and be listening to a recording which interests me within seconds. That is a fantastic capability, incomparably quicker and better than I could have dreamed about a decade ago.  

Frank Yang posted:

NBPF, How about sending a feedback to Qobuz and see what they say? I am interested.

I have contacted Qobuz many times on a number of technical issues and never received any feedback. This was extremely frustrating and another reason why I finally cancelled my subscription.

likesmusic posted:

nbpf posted:

likesmusic posted:

nbpf posted

It is not so much a problem of how their collection is presented, the main problem is how the set of albums that one has marked as favourites can be browsed. For classical music it is essential for me to be able to select a composer (say Sibelius), a work (say his violin concert) and see all albums that contain Sibelius' violin concert and that I have marked as favourite. This is easily done with my collection but apparently undoable in Qobuz. I agree that the Qobuz collection is vast and interesting but since I cannot browse it the way I like, I have been using it less and less. Hence the decision to cancel my subscription. 

But Qobuz does let you search your favourites for “Sibelius Violin Concerto” or indeed any other free text. You can do this in the ioS, OS x and Windows Qobuz apps for sure. You can similarly search all of Qobuz, or your offline library, or your playlists, or your offline playlists. Perhaps it is your chosen control point that does not let you do this, in which case it is unfair of you to criticise Qobuz for something that is in fact an inadequacy of your chosen 3rd party control point/server.  Furthermore playlists offer interesting possibilities of organising your music, because unlike albums you can choose the name and the order.

I do not want to have to enter any text in order to select a set of albums from my favourites or from the whole Qobuz library and I do not want to manage playlists. It is not a problem of 3rd party control points, the Qobuz app for Android lacks essential metadata for classical music and, as a consequence, the capability of selecting (not entering), for instance, a composer from a composer list, a work (composition) from a list of the compositions of that composer and finally an album containing that composition. This is easily done with a UPnP server and a well-tagged collection. Without the possibility of marking and browsing a music collection the way I like, I have found the Qobuz experience more distracting than inspiring. I will follow how Qobuz, Tidal, Idagio, etc. evolve and I would be pleased to pay an extra fee for a better browsing experience. For the time being, however, I have cancelled my subscriptions.   

... Metadata for classical music is poor, and it will continue to be poor. Even if it was good, it will never be the way you want it. You just have to live with it. ...

No, I do not have to live with it. I can cancel my subscription which is what I have done. If Qobuz will improve, I will subscribe again. It is as simple as that: you are satisfied with what Qobuz currently offer and I am not. It is just a matter of subjective preferences and priorities. I have renewed my Gramophone and Digital Concert Hall subscriptions and cancelled my Qobuz subscription. Earlier I had a Tidal subscription that I have meanwhile also cancelled. I might try an Idagio subscription at a certain point or just use the money for a live concert. There are so many ways of learning about music ... Qobuz is just one of them and they have to get better and improve their technical support!   

I use Mconnect player app on my Ipad to browse Qobuz.. I have the sublime+ membership.  it allows me to direct hi res albums to my NDS no problem.  It's a great interface that i find more stable and more attractrive to use than that the naim app.  Think it cost me 5.99 at the app store and didnt require adding anything to my NAS.  Not been tempted to try Tidal. I do find that my own rips on the NAS sound better than the 16bit offerings of the same albums in Qobuz.  No complaints with the high res offerings or the price discount i get if i wish to purchase.

If you can use BubbleUPnP Server and either LUMIN or Kazoo, then trust me it sounds better than mconnect. Notably.

Thanks Nick that was pretty painless to install and does sound good. Kazoo is a good app ????????

Qobuz have been enhancing their Windows / MacOS desktop app and it has a beta version that streams to a DLNA/UPnP compatible streamers.
Last time I tried, it sort of worked but in a unreliable way, but it is very promising.

hi Frank, any clue if this is envisaged to be offered on mobile devices?

DrPo posted:

hi Frank, any clue if this is envisaged to be offered on mobile devices?

Not that I know of.

Streaming with Naim app and Tidal on my 272 is ok, but when i really like a record i buy it at Qobuz and put it on my Melco.....a huge quality difference with streaming.......