ATC SCM19 VS Neat Motive SX1/SX2

FWIW - I have listened to the ATC SMC 19 with the NDX > SN2 and thought it was a fantastic speaker.  No experience with the Neats.

I believe there are a couple of members with the SN2 & ATC SMC 19 speakers and a couple with the SN2 & ATC SMC 40 speakers. I believe most are also using a HiCap.

I have also recently listened to a the ATC SMC 19A active speakers with a 272 pre amp and it was quite impressive. 

I did compare the SCM19 with the Neat Momentum SX3i and went with the SX3i. The SCM19 does some things extremely well but the SX3i had kind of a flow that I liked when just relaxing and listening to music. I use (non-DR but serviced) 252/300. 

Daniel H. posted:

I am still doing research to upgrade my Sonus Faber Venere 2 speakers. I am using a Naim Supernait 2. I was wondering if anyone can compare, or give their opinions on the ATC SCM19 versus the Neat Motive SX1 or SX2. 

A demo with the ATCs is possible for me, but not for the Neats.

Are these speakers just different, and appeal to different tastes? Or, is the ATC SCM19 just in a higher class than the Neats (the ATCs are more expensive)?

There's no real substitute for home dem

I would say they are possible very different, even getting them home a decision could be difficult, my experience are with SCM7 & 11, they really need some juice to come on song, not ideal for late night listening IME, in other ways they are hard to beat.

The Motive 1 i heard were bass heavy and not my cup, much preferred 2 & 3. They need some distance to evironments even buttom ported

Perhaps put the new Iota floorstanders into the game as well

Thanks for the replies! I have heard before that ATCs need the volume cranked up to come alive. If true, that could be a deal breaker. I will certainly demo them before buying. 

Well, with my 52 I seemingly never surpass 8 o'clock on the volume pot. 7-7.5 is nominal enjoyment for me. With the 82 might have gone a touch louder. 

Daniel H. posted:

Thanks for the replies! I have heard before that ATCs need the volume cranked up to come alive. If true, that could be a deal breaker. I will certainly demo them before buying. 

A few years ago I auditioned the ATC SCM7 & 11. I was aware of the reputation ATC speakers had of not really coming alive until the volume was cranked up a bit, so this was a concern to me as most of my listening these days is late at night, with the volume control below the 9 o’clock mark.

I was pleased to discover that, while both speakers are definitely at their best at moderate to high levels, and continue to hold it together very well at very high levels (they seem almost bombproof ), they were more than satisfactory at low levels as well. My fear was that, having grown attached to their presentation at “normal” levels, I would find the late night experience a bit of a cold bath, but this has not proven to be the case. *

This is not to say that another speaker on your list won’t win the late night listening challenge, rather that you shouldn’t rule out ATC on this score without an extended home audition first. I'll be interested to hear how you get on.

* The ever-present upgraditis demon tells me that an amplification upgrade would squeeze a bit more life and presence out of those late night sessions, but I suspect this would happen in some form with any other speaker, given the compromises that must always be made.

Daniel H. posted:

Thanks for the replies! I have heard before that ATCs need the volume cranked up to come alive. If true, that could be a deal breaker. I will certainly demo them before buying. 

Hi, I think that reputation was from the older generation ATCs that used the Vifa and Seas tweeters. The newer models use their own in house tweeter now and seem to work a lot better at lower volumes by being more resolving and sensitive... I have noticed this most with classical music where the programme material can vary significantly in effective loudness.

A few urban myths still hang around ATC speakers based from experiences with the older generation models.. another myth is that you still need to a use really powerful amp to control them. The older models had quite a demanding impedance curve so a stiff amp was usually required to sound them at their best.. the newer models have a newer designed crossover and the impedance curve is more benign. I have found more modest amps are fine now with ATC,  although won’t go to room shattering volumes due to their infinite baffle sensitivity.

Thanks again for the replies! I am glad to hear the new ATCs are easier to drive, and sound good at low volumes. I think they are definitely worth an audition.

A dealer that is a 7 hour drive from my home is liquidating his remaining stock of Kudos speakers. He is selling a brand new pair of Kudos C20 with a 40% rebate. The original list price the dealer claims before the rebate, has the C20 at about the same price as a Spendor D7.

I wonder if the C20 is good enough to warrant such a price. At 40% off, it could be a good deal. It does worry me though, that there is no longer a Kudos distributor in Canada. Seems a little risky to buy. 

Another couple of speakers to consider is SCM12 and SCM20 - they are part of the ATC pro line. I've just read a post from a Sound on Sound magazine contributor who said he uses SCM12 at home for personal use. SCM20 in particular uses a more refined tweeter than the hifi version (SCM19).

Don't take too much notice of comparing ATC frequency response specs with other manufacturers. One thing to remember about ATC speakers is that they are sealed box designs which means the bass tails off far more slowly and accurately than ported designs. For example, SCM12 might start falling off at 56Hz but it does so very slowly, so at 35Hz it's only -12db down. Very impressive bass response for a small speaker. The bottom note of a bass guitar is about 40Hz. In addition, they are far more easy to place near walls in problem rooms as no port to worry about.

It amazes me that so few speaker manufacturers, if any, are doing what ATC do. Most are concerned with marketing hype and profit rather than serious sound engineering. Devialet advertise their Phantom speakers as 'the best sound in the world'. Really?

I think you’ll find both use the same in-house 25mm softdomed tweeter driver with the pro model being able to support high power levels over sustained periods. As the devices don’t use potentially distortion inducing ferrofluid as coolants as is common in other tweeter designs these considerations are important. The pro model has so I understand a sharper filter response crossover over the domestic version which again is important for high power intensity operation. I doubt in most domestic settings the speakers will be operating at the power levels to make an appreciable difference. I used to own and run a pair of SCM12s and in a domestic setting didn’t really need the advantage of the extra power handling, although I did have internal magnetic shielding added as a custom mod by ATC.

The cab volume sizes are effectively the same between the current 12 and 11 and the 20 and 19... being 12 and 20 litres. The 11 and 19 was apparently created to differentiate between the domestic and professional models.

Hi Simon, the pro version uses the 'sl spec' tweeter which is an upgraded version of the SCM19 tweeter. See:

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/2...nced-s-spec-tweeter/

I should have made it clear my post was referring specifically to the new SCM12 PRO model which has only been available since late 2016. 

I deliberated between SCM19A's and SCM20A Pro's, mainly because of the higher spec tweeter in the Pro speakers. Apparently the SL spec tweeter has about a 50% increase in flux density in the voice coil, compared to the standard ATC manufactured tweeter in the domestic entry range, leading to reduced distortion and increased sensitivity, making them more suitable than the domestic range for studio use when monitoring raw and uncompressed audio feeds.

I was advised by the ATC importer for North America that the SCM19A's would be more suitable for home use as a) they are not tuned as bright as the 20A's (the 19A's sound warmer) and b) finding suitable stands for the 20A's is a bit of an issue as not many pass sonic muster and therefore a variable I didn't need.

I have ATC SCM 50 ASLT playing with my 272-XPS combo, can't even imaging looking for other speakers choice, they sound amazing. 

You're lucky to have a room for 50 actives!

I have compared the 19 actives and 19 passives with P1 and found the passives to be the more laid back of the two.

I read a post on another forum from a member that compared 19 passives with 20 pro passives and he thought the 20 pro passives were the more sweeter and refined.

Halloween Man posted:

You're lucky to have a room for 50 actives!

I have compared the 19 actives and 19 passives with P1 and found the passives to be the more laid back of the two.

I read a post on another forum from a member that compared 19 passives with 20 pro passives and he thought the 20 pro passives were the more sweeter and refined.

Go for active version always if you can,  only then you will really understand the level of these speakers.

I did several demos with passive 50s, it was impossible to make them sing and then I just bought actives from one guy, blind purchase.

And wow, each time I hear them it's a small miracle. I have now active 20s in my room also, amazing. 

Try them if you can before you buy something else. 

Halloween Man posted:

Hi Simon, the pro version uses the 'sl spec' tweeter which is an upgraded version of the SCM19 tweeter. See:

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/2...nced-s-spec-tweeter/

I should have made it clear my post was referring specifically to the new SCM12 PRO model which has only been available since late 2016. 

Yes indeed the SH75-26 is their own high end softened speakers which initially was used in their latest domestic speakers, and more recently higher power tolerant  enhanced S version of that device appears in the pro models.. and I think that is why there was a delay in rolling out the SH75-26S to the pro models and in that time the pro models had to use third party Hf drivers much to many pro ATC customer’s frustration. It’s a fantastic driver and really it’s domestic power and pro power versions really sound very good indeed.

The 19 however  already uses the enhanced SL spec bass/mid driver ... so you can work that driver hard and still expect consistent performance 

I can’t speak from experience with regards to the ATC SCM19, but I own the ATC SCM11 and use them with a NAP 200. To my ears they sound superb at medium and low volume levels. And absolutely incredible at high volume. Additionally my NAP 200 has no problem driving them to very loud levels, whilst maintaining excellent control. 

Ian.

I believe all ATC models whether domestic or professional now use either the in-house SH75-26 or SH75-26S soft dome tweeters.. with the latter designed for the more challenging environments of the pro models.

Its not about how well they sound loud and soft, they all do well here... it’s a good trait of the ATCs... but a speaker designed for an 8 hour or longer shifts day in and day out at high power levels (probably way higher than the NAP200 can deliver) whilst maintaining consistent sonic performance  as the drivers warm up requires some extra finessing.. not least because the ATC tweeters don’t use heat dissipating  ferro fluid for performance accuracy reasons.

ive owned the scm 19 and demoed the scm20 pro and the higher spec in the 20 is just a bit more refined and grown up, not a huge difference in the two and the 19 is domestically all you will ever need from a small passive speaker.

Dynaudio also make studio monitors, yet they still use ferro fluid cooled tweeters... not sure how they manage under 8 hours of loud SPL in the studios...?

“A dealer that is a 7 hour drive from my home is liquidating his remaining stock of Kudos speakers. He is selling a brand new pair of Kudos C20 with a 40% rebate. The original list price the dealer claims before the rebate, has the C20 at about the same price as a Spendor D7.

I wonder if the C20 is good enough to warrant such a price. At 40% off, it could be a good deal. It does worry me though, that there is no longer a Kudos distributor in Canada. Seems a little risky to buy.”

All the speakers you are looking at are all very different sonic signatures !!!!!

you really need to do a home demo !!!!

my advice would be don’t buy things just cause they are on sale buy what works best for you / your system and your room ! 

That said I know the dealer who’s selling those Kudos off and I’m sure they would stand behind them if you had a problem.

but still think “ try before you buy “ is best 

analogmusic posted:

Dynaudio also make studio monitors, yet they still use ferro fluid cooled tweeters... not sure how they manage under 8 hours of loud SPL in the studios...?

Exactly it’s easier to make higher power Hf speakers with ferro fluid cooling albeit at the expense according to ATC of fine and subtle detail. One of the things that to me that is standout with ATC is the accuracy and subtlety from their tweeters..... it’ can be quite hard going back to some other speakers after you have experienced the subtly and insight from ATC. Detail, clarity and ambience without highlighting or tiresome forward ness ... and no detracting soft or hard sibilence

I was at an event recently comparing the quality of sound reinforcement speakers (non were ATC) and the differeing accuracy and resolution of the Hf drivers made a huge difference.

‘Tis indeed a very special tweeter.

Thanks again everyone for all of the replies! The ATCs seem to be the kind of speaker I am looking for. I plan to audition them when I get time off in a few weeks. The dealer who sells them also sells Harbeth and Dynaudio. I will ask to demo Harbeth 30.1s, and Dynaudio Special 40s. 

I expect to like the Harbeth midrange, but dislike the slow Harbeth bass. I am not sure what to expect from the Dynaudio Special 40s; especially since Stereophile just reviewed them harshly! 

I prefer to hear a few models just to make sure I buy the right ones. I have to admit though, that "on paper", the ATCs sound like my kind of speaker.