Redundant NDS's - jump now or wait to be pushed?
Posted by: rjstaines on 30 August 2018
When I was doing the maths to convince myself I could afford an ND555, I priced my NDS at £4,600 or thereabouts. I listed it on that auction site a few weeks ago, before the ND555 started shipping, hoping I'd still get 'top dollar' for it. In the event, it sold for just £3,500 
I've been following the auction price of NDS's since then and, now that Naim seem to have resolved the couple of hiccups (lack of burndies and lack of outer 500 series cases) and are beginning to ship serious numbers of 555's, I'm seeing the price of used NDS's dropping.
If I still had my NDS, should I be jumping to list it now, or should I wait for prices to (hopefully) recover in a few months time? For me this is academic, but how about you, do you have one to sell? ...and how important is it's resale value in the funding of your new purchase?
Roger
I wonder if the prices largely depend on how good the NDX2 turns out to be.
I too have an NDS. One of the positives of owning Naim equipment on top of the obvious sound quality has been the decent residual resale values of the components. This for me has been an important aspect in investing in Naim, allowing me to make an upgrade without starting from scratch. I too have been keeping tabs on the second hand NDS prices and unfortunately I’m a bit disappointed with the drop in value.
In he past Naim have been good at maintaining a hiarchy which has helped maintain a products used value, but if as seems to have been reported a bare NDX2 favourably compares to a NDS/555PS then that really would be upsetting because it will render the NDS practically worthless. Who would buy a used NDS knowing that you would also have to purchase a 555PS ( which by the way costs more than an NDX2 just on it’s own) to have a sound quality equivalent to the NDX2. This will obviously reflect on trade-in values because the dealers wouldn’t be able to move them on either. Not a great situation for us NDS owners.
We’ll have to wait and see if the NDX2 is any good I suppose.
Streaming technology is a fast moving area. It is not surprising that residual values for second hand kit are not as strong as amps. It's not just Naim kit that suffers with this. I was a Linn KDS owner since the initial release. Their upgrade policy helped offset upgrade costs but second hand values in recent years have softened It's is a bit like digital cameras where technology is continually improving and second values are not great.
Cost of ownership of the latest digital technology is high. But the rewards in terms of musical enjoyment are definitely worth it, IMO.
Spudgun posted:I too have an NDS. One of the positives of owning Naim equipment on top of the obvious sound quality has been the decent residual resale values of the components. This for me has been an important aspect in investing in Naim, allowing me to make an upgrade without starting from scratch. I too have been keeping tabs on the second hand NDS prices and unfortunately I’m a bit disappointed with the drop in value.
In he past Naim have been good at maintaining a hiarchy which has helped maintain a products used value, but if as seems to have been reported a bare NDX2 favourably compares to a NDS/555PS then that really would be upsetting because it will render the NDS practically worthless. Who would buy a used NDS knowing that you would also have to purchase a 555PS ( which by the way costs more than an NDX2 just on it’s own) to have a sound quality equivalent to the NDX2. This will obviously reflect on trade-in values because the dealers wouldn’t be able to move them on either. Not a great situation for us NDS owners.
We’ll have to wait and see if the NDX2 is any good I suppose.
The only review in the HFi press is that by Andrew Everard comparing an NDS to an NDX2, both powered by a 555DR. Mr Everard concluded that the NDS just edged ahead of the NDX2 on boogie factor.
At present, a pre-loved old/middle-aged NDS is coming in considerably under the cost of a new NDX2, so seems to offer reasonable value if you agree that it (just) out-performs a NDX2. But I am sure we need more comparisons and evidence of comparative performance to draw that conclusion.
It’s the same with all digital sources. I have a Hugo TT and the new Hugo TT with ability to accept a signal form the m-scaler has obliterated the s/h value.
Digital front ends and speakers lose sale value much quicker than amps, it’s just a fact of life. It is unlikely an NDS will ever sell for over 4k while a PS555DR will hold its value relatively.
.sjb
Despite changes in technology, if home streaming via UpNP is your main thing, the newer models offer nothing meaningful feature-wise and the comparison is on sound quality alone.
I'd love to treat myself to a new ND555 but if finances don't permit, a second hand NDS would make my day. The value of a NDS isn't just the goid second hand prices but the fact you can go to an NDS with an XPS if desired.
Nothing meaningful feature- wise
- roon
- airplay
- bluetooth
- chromecast
do you want it to make coffee for you also ?
.sjb
The assumption being you stream via Asset, Minimserver or a Core, the existing streamers have alk the functionality you need.
An NDS has just sold on PF for £2750 !
that is just amazing..... I don't get it though.
The NDS is still an amazing source..... but I guess cars and mobile phones suffer tremendous depreciation.
Alba1320 posted:I wonder if, over time, once the initial take-up of ND555 etc. is over, and with a 'normal' availability of NDS, the 'real' second-hand price range (depending on age, condition etc.) will be reached?
By which time, if there is ever such a time, I suspect the price of the ND555 will have increased.
The digital source market is making huge progress.... now the Audioquest Dragonfly red gives a level of performance for 200 dollars which is off the charts.....
It's good for customers.
As good as the new players are, I'd be hanging onto my NDS (if I had one) and just enjoying it for now. It's still a fantastic machine and when the time comes it would be up to a ND555. Unless you desperately need the new features brought by the new streaming module in the latest machines then a move to the NDX2 would be more sideways than upwards. One other thing to bear in mind is that these are new machines and may end up subject to the usual new release niggles so waiting a few months for the dust to settle might be beneficial...
Once the price of gear falls because it isn't top of the range anymore or because a new version comes out it rarely recovers to previous used prices apart from the Naits 1&2 obviously.
Naim have to sell this new flagship streamer as so much better than the last one otherwise why would people pay over twice what the NDS cost on release. This then leaves the NDS as second best in the Naim world and there are of course those of you that just can't have second best meaning the NDS is then less desirable and with the NDX2 coming out used NDS prices could fall again.
So sell, sell, sell!!!!!
Or, trade, trade, trade!!!!
HiFiman posted:An NDS has just sold on PF for £2750 !
£2750 ouch, hopefully the initial panic, but concern must be not the smaller % going to an ND555, but those maybe going NDX2.
I have always admired the way Naim residuals used to hold, if anything when purchased second hand, used for a decade and sold for the same.
Residuals are critical, just look at mobiles and moreso cars, certain products like Samsung mobiles and lesser brands cars loose 50%+ just walking out the show room or shop.
HiFiman posted:An NDS has just sold on PF for £2750 !
I noticed this too - and it's through a dealer (possibly not Naim, haven't checked)!
Another dealer is selling his ex-demo NDX for essentially the same price. I know I'd go for the NDS (if it hadn't sold so quickly).
If these prices become more available, I might consider trading my CDS3 and ND5XS for an NDS!
just posted my thoughts following last nights ND 555 [@mention:1566878603906177]
ND 555 is superb! but 5K more than NDS? not sure of that one to be honest, Mark from NAIM demo same set up for NDS and ND 555 and yes the ND 555 showed more detail and focus, but not light and day difference
for me its given me some chin stratching to do - keep NDX and work on LP12, buy 555 for current NDX - ditch NDX and get NDX2 or sell NDX and get NDS with 555
from what i heard last night the guys who are purchasing good SH NDS for that kind of money are getting very good value!!
analogmusic posted:The digital source market is making huge progress.... now the Audioquest Dragonfly red gives a level of performance for 200 dollars which is off the charts.....
It's good for customers.
Analog, sorry for the sidestep but have you compared the Dragonfly red against your Chord Mojo? I have the Dragonfly Black and the Chord Mojo and I consider the Mojo into my Naim stuff a much smoother DAC compared to the Black.
antony d posted:just posted my thoughts following last nights ND 555 [@mention:1566878603906177]
ND 555 is superb! but 5K more than NDS? not sure of that one to be honest, Mark from NAIM demo same set up for NDS and ND 555 and yes the ND 555 showed more detail and focus, but not light and day difference
for me its given me some chin stratching to do - keep NDX and work on LP12, buy 555 for current NDX - ditch NDX and get NDX2 or sell NDX and get NDS with 555
from what i heard last night the guys who are purchasing good SH NDS for that kind of money are getting very good value!!
At the demo I had it was obvious the ND555 was better, though I struggled with the music played, and the Focal speakers used. Popped in recently and heard my music thru Kudos 808 and everything snapped into place, a very accomplished streamer. I know Naim are trying to highlight absolute differences, and they will never please everyone.......but you would hope that the music could be a bit better?
antony d posted:just posted my thoughts following last nights ND 555 [@mention:1566878603906177]
ND 555 is superb! but 5K more than NDS? not sure of that one to be honest, Mark from NAIM demo same set up for NDS and ND 555 and yes the ND 555 showed more detail and focus, but not light and day difference
Hi Anthony...I was there for the 3pm session. I did wonder, what the ND555 would have sounded like, if it hadn't been put through those lovely Titan 808s?
Right now it's likely just a simple case of supply and demand - lots of s/h NDS units suddenly coming on the market at the same time looking for buyers. That is bound to depress secondhand prices - at least in the short term.
On the flip side, that means right now is probably a rather good time to buy as the NDS is still a superb source, and the "get-in" is a bit easier - all you need is a s/h XPS2 or even XP5xs and you're up and running...
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that the NDS can be used with two 555PS whereas NDX2 can only be used with one.
I doubt that the NDX2 will be close in performance to the NDS when the NDS is used with two power supplies so I would imagine that is an area where the NDS still has a clear advantage.
Not so sure....2 x 555ps and a second hand NDS costs more than a ND555 with one 555ps. And there are not that many 555ps on the market?
Meerkat posted:antony d posted:just posted my thoughts following last nights ND 555 [@mention:1566878603906177]
ND 555 is superb! but 5K more than NDS? not sure of that one to be honest, Mark from NAIM demo same set up for NDS and ND 555 and yes the ND 555 showed more detail and focus, but not light and day difference
Hi Anthony...I was there for the 3pm session. I did wonder, what the ND555 would have sounded like, if it hadn't been put through those lovely Titan 808s?
Got to love those T808!'s what a speaker, but then again what a source
what yesterday did for me more than anything to be honest, is now it is not clear to me to jump from NDX to NDX2 there is another path and i dont use the new addtions in NDX32 cromecast etc, so NDS may well be the way foward!
got to go there is a fence with my name on it!