UPNP vs USB

With the new streamers (using ‘server’ mode) I would say this is worth a try, although I’m not sure how large a collection the USB input can handle properly. With the old streamers, my experience is that metadata handling from USB drives is going to cause problems, although you could try this with any USB stick first as a trial. 

I tried it for a week with my Nova even buying a better SSD, with a few tweak Tidal wins, sticking to pure streaming.

But try yourself as mentioned any USB correctly formatted will work in UPnP.

Obsydian posted:

But try yourself as mentioned any USB correctly formatted will work in UPnP.

Not in an NDS it won’t!

Many thanks - i have ordered a ND555 so will soon be on the new platform. So a USB drive connected to the ND555 will also use upnp?

CHRISSU - Is correct missed that, but any reason to get an ND555 is a good reason  is it not ????

LarsDK posted:

Many thanks - i have ordered a ND555 so will soon be on the new platform. So a USB drive connected to the ND555 will also use upnp?

I understand that the ND555 can run a UPnP server and that this will be seen by LAN UPnP clients, including of course the one running on the ND555. Thus, after connecting a USB drive to the ND555, you should be able to browse its content as if it was a drive of a networked Core. I could not find any documentation about the ND555's UPnP server but I expect it to be the same running on the Core and on some Uniti devices. One of the advantages of using the ND555 as a USB drive player is that it makes a wired connection to your LAN obsolete: a wireless connection should be more than enough for control and for internet streaming and radio. Sound quality wise I would expect replay from a local USB drive to be as good as replay from a remote UPnP server as both inputs are processed by the same streaming card on the digital board of the ND555. I would be grateful if you could try both inputs and report your findings and ... have fun with your new ND555!

LarsDK posted:

Many thanks - i have ordered a ND555 so will soon be on the new platform. So a USB drive connected to the ND555 will also use upnp?

No, they are completely different. USB is like a file access method of playing audio, and UPnP is a streaming method where the media is transferred using web type protocols.

Lars, remember that to add new music to the USB you will need to remove it from the streamer, connect to your computer, add the music, unmount it and then reconnect to the Naim. I’m sure it would be logistically simpler to stick with upnp. If it’s a decent nas, try putting Asset or Minim on it and streaming directly, without the Serve in the loop. I found it sounded better than the Serve. 

The unitiserve/synology/network is fully stable and works as it is, I was just wondering if a USB connected directly to the ND555 would have SQ benefits as much less gear/cable between the music file and streamer. Intuitively I would expect that, but maybe it does not matter. And if metadata/usability is worse on usb then also not a good idea. Still curious if anyone had benefits from the more direct connection.

hh - i know it would be a hazzle but am realizing that i simply dont buy cds anymore. So if there are benefits of usb, i would go for that

thanks for your inputs so far!

lars

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

LarsDK posted:

Many thanks - i have ordered a ND555 so will soon be on the new platform. So a USB drive connected to the ND555 will also use upnp?

No, they are completely different. USB is like a file access method of playing audio, and UPnP is a streaming method where the media is transferred using web type protocols.

The new streamers have Naim's UPnP server loaded onto them, and this can be used to serve music files on the attached USB ports, both to the streamer itself, and to any other streamer (Naim or non-Naim) on your network. How effective this is, compared to a regular computer or NAS based server, in terms of sound quality and the ability to handle a large library, you should test for yourself before you ditch your existing NAS/server. 

Thanks ChrisSU - will surely keep the uniti/nas for backup in any case! Will test out the new functionality then, still it would be very interesting if anyone has already done that. Also advice on usb drive and cable highly appreciated. Br lars

LarsDK posted:

Thanks ChrisSU - will surely keep the uniti/nas for backup in any case! Will test out the new functionality then, still it would be very interesting if anyone has already done that. Also advice on usb drive and cable highly appreciated. Br lars

I've tried it on an Atom, and it works fine using a cheap USB stick with about 300 albums loaded on it. It sounds fine through both the Atom and my NDX, although I haven't made any serious effort to compare the sound quality with any other server setup. 

Many thanks NBPF, its very interesting with the native upnp server, the ND555 white paper also shows that the USB sockets connect to the streaming board just like the ethernet connection. I will check with Naim if they made any comparisons, but seems like they actually invested into making a usb based setup work.

SQ uplift would then be from removing the network to nas, which at least some are posting can impact replay. Maybe the new tech to make setup not influence SQ makes it irrelevant. Will require a test indeed - will report when i have it.

any learnings on best usb ssd drive and cable?

br Lars

I contacted customer support a few days ago to ask about the viability of using USB memory sticks / hard drives with the NDX2 / ND555. The person I spoke to didn’t seem to think this would compromise sound quality. It would take some time to load the files when the external storage is first plugged in. The only other potential drawback he mentioned is a limit of 10,000 tracks.

The NDS is recognised my many as performing best of all via its USB port. I have tried it and found it sounds no different from uPnP in my system and ears. Ditto the DAC playing via its USB port. I'll try it again at some stage on the ND555. I don't expect to hear a difference but I won't know until I've tried it. The presentation of material in the app (at least for NDS) fed via USB is ugly. But if it sounded better the aesthetics wouldn't matter to me.

Hi Lars

I use USB on Atom. First used an HDD and had issues with a playlist corrupting. Switched to a Samsung SSD,  and now have not had issues. 

I very rarely rip new tracks, but if I did, then I think functionality of NAS would win the day. For only occasional (or no) rips, lack of any network issues is great. 

If go for USB, buy a spare connecting  cable. That way you only have to unplug SSD from the cable (rather than the cable from the Atom). This stops you having to rummage around the back of the unit to reconnect after ripping tracks . 

Si

I cannot talk about the new streamers but when I owned a UQ2 and ND5XS they always sounded better via their usb ports.

LarsDK posted:

...

any learnings on best usb ssd drive and cable?

br Lars

No but if you check the CA forums you will find a number of threads discussing the alleged advantages and disadvantages of SSDs, HDDs, USB sticks, etc. Best, nbpf

LarsDK posted:

Many thanks NBPF, its very interesting with the native upnp server, the ND555 white paper also shows that the USB sockets connect to the streaming board just like the ethernet connection. I will check with Naim if they made any comparisons, but seems like they actually invested into making a usb based setup work.

SQ uplift would then be from removing the network to nas, which at least some are posting can impact replay. Maybe the new tech to make setup not influence SQ makes it irrelevant. Will require a test indeed - will report when i have it.

any learnings on best usb ssd drive and cable?

I don’t get this at all... you think removing an Ethernet connection with a noisy USB SSD drive is necessarily going to improve things (by design USB is noisier than Ethernet).. almost certainly it will go the other way or just move the air bubble around. Naim have invested significant design effort in decoupling the the effects of Ethernet on the ND555 ... and no one with a  ND555 has yet reported a sonic shift when playing a track once fully spooled.. therefore to those people all issues of Ethernet related noise have been removed on the ND555

Now connecting cables to the device can produce common mode earth loops etc.. so it may be actually connecting USB, Ethernet cables etc affects the SQ through noise.. irrespective of whether they are being used to carry data. The usual remedy to this are common mode inductive chokes slapped around cables.

Thanks all for the replies! Simon I am asking because I dont know myself. Was not aware of the noise problems you refer to, but that is good to know. 

Harry - that is also what i recall, ie usb is a good way to connect. Hmmm, will wait for answer on naim on what they recommend for nd555... the samsung ssd looks very appealing and easy to fit in anywhere !

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

LarsDK posted:

Many thanks NBPF, its very interesting with the native upnp server, the ND555 white paper also shows that the USB sockets connect to the streaming board just like the ethernet connection. I will check with Naim if they made any comparisons, but seems like they actually invested into making a usb based setup work.

SQ uplift would then be from removing the network to nas, which at least some are posting can impact replay. Maybe the new tech to make setup not influence SQ makes it irrelevant. Will require a test indeed - will report when i have it.

any learnings on best usb ssd drive and cable?

I don’t get this at all... you think removing an Ethernet connection with a noisy USB SSD drive is necessarily going to improve things (by design USB is noisier than Ethernet).. almost certainly it will go the other way or just move the air bubble around. Naim have invested significant design effort in decoupling the the effects of Ethernet on the ND555 ... and no one with a  ND555 has yet reported a sonic shift when playing a track once fully spooled.. therefore to those people all issues of Ethernet related noise have been removed on the ND555

Now connecting cables to the device can produce common mode earth loops etc.. so it may be actually connecting USB, Ethernet cables etc affects the SQ through noise.. irrespective of whether they are being used to carry data. The usual remedy to this are common mode inductive chokes slapped around cables.

I hardly believe that the OP believes that removing an Ethernet connection is "necessarily" going to improve things, but I can only speak for myself, of course. If I had a ND555, I would simply try all its inputs and assess their sound quality and practical advantages and disadvantages. An obvious advantage of streaming from a USB attached drive is that no wired ethernet connection is needed. One disadvantage is that the contents of the attached drive will be presented to the Naim app by Naim's own UPnP server. If this is the same UPnP server that runs on the Uniti Core, it is quite unsuitable for classical music and certainly not as flexible and customizable as Asset or MinimServer. No matter how the OP will finally use his ND555, I find it interesting that the device can be used as a S/PDIF DAC, as an ethernet DAC and as a server + player of locally stored data. This third possibility has been introduced with the new NP800 streaming card and was not available on NDS, NDX and ND5 XS devices. I think it makes the ND555 (and the NDX2, ND5 XS 2) more flexible and more interesting devices although I would have preferred to see a drive caddy as in the Uniti Core instead of just a USB port for local storage.

Indeed will simply have to try this out. The naim upnp server on unitiserve works very well for me today, so if its the same usability with usb, it would be great!

I have found zero difference between using USB and streaming on my Atom, if this is any help. 

with the aries mini with internal drive and digital out , I thought overall sounded alittle better than upnp