NDS upgrade

The NDS had uniformly excellent reviews when it came out. It has not got any less fantastic sounding because the ND555 has been launched. Their value s/h now is excellent. A genuinely magical player. I would not hesitate if I didn't already have one. Dealers are going to have a few of these s/h soon so you should get to hear one before deciding.

I used mine with non DR 555PS and old 52/Scap for many years. It has just gone for a fault repair and also a PS DR upgrade so I will let you know how that goes.

As for servicing, my understanding is that generally every 8-10yrs? Others may have a better idea but despite my recent fault I think they are generally very reliable.

Finally you will see discussions if you search in terms of putting a DR Scap on an old 52. Some feel that it is better with an old olive supercap some don't. In your system I'd put my money into the NDS first.

Bruce

Incidentally I don't think there were any significant upgrades during the product lifetime, unlike the 52 that is well worth having upgrading to the 'Pots 8' final spec.

Bruce

David

I went to a demo last week on the new ND 555 - rest of the system was 552/300DR

but what the demo showed first was the NDS the NDS performed really well and there is not Night and day between the NDS & ND 555, yes the ND 555 has more functionallity over NDS but like me I only use the UpNP on my current NDX

there are going to be a few NDS for sale with owners buying the new ND 555 so good time to purchase

and yes to DR on 555! -

only comment from me is with NDS you might need to look at NAS to move over to High Res - I think your system demands a better source

You're going to need a server, and I recommend what many people use, a QNAP or Synology nas running Asset or MinimServer.  That nas, once on your home network, will serve music including hi res files to all your devices.

The NDS is a great streamer, and with many owners now changing to the new ND555, a number of NDS can already be found on the popular auction and sales sites. Others may soon become available from dealers having been taken in part exchange for the newer machine. Some may be found at quite attractive prices currently. 

Many thanks for all your guidance.....but I am clearly needing some more!

Here is my usecase.

I want to use NDS for my ripped CDs which are currently on a Western Digital USB 3 hard drive. This includes my hi-res files. I do not need to access these files on any other devices

Questions: 

1. Do I need to upgrade the HD
2. Do I need re-reip my 500 CDs (oh god), they are either apple lossless or AIFF

Secondary use case for second input:

I will use it for Apple Music, this is my preferred streaming service as I really like the curated content.

I assume that I will be able to stream this to my two Musos. Airplay limits some programming to just the primary device so I am hopeing to get around this.

What is the best practice here?

Many thanks for the  continued wisdom

Your solution is in the post from Bart.  You need to move all the files over to a NAS (a server)  QNAP or Synology,  its what 99% of everyone does & is what Naim design all the streamers to do.  It means connecting NAS to NDS via your broadband router with ethernet cables.      It  does not mean ripping CD's again,  its just a question of copying from your USB drive to the new NAS drive.   That way you can use the Naim app as a control point on your tablet or smart phone,  you can browse not only your own server music,  but also the internet streaming services such as Tidal & also Naims own iRadio (web-radio) 

You do not need to re-rip your CDs! You can continue to use the Mac Mini. You could give it a direct connection to the NDS, although that rather defeats the point of having a streamer, as this section of the NDS would be bypassed. The alternative would be to use a network connection. The Mac could be located anywhere as long as it has a network connection, with the USB drive attached to it. The NDS will find it through its network connection. You will need to run a UPnP server on the Mac. You could also consider replacing the Mac with a NAS, which can store your music and run a server.

What you will lose by removing the direct connection from Mac to HiFi system is Apple Music on the NDS, as unlike the Musos, it is not Airplay enabled. A simple solution to this would be to connect an Airport Express to its optical input. 

Davidr posted:

 

What is the best practice here?

Many thanks for the  continued wisdom 

Best practice for YOUR use-case is, again, put the files on a nas and use the nas as a UPNP server. All of those files will be available to the NDS and both Musos.

As for Apple Music, first off it's a lossy format but I suppose that's neither here nor there other than the data stream severely limiting what the NDS and your overall system is capable of.  Muso supports AirPlay, so you can stream Apple Music to them right from an iPhone or iPad. The NDS does not.  What I did with my NDS for my kids (they liked to stream from their phones) was to get a small Bluetooth adapter. Given the lossy nature of Apple Music, it won't make the ultimate sound quality any worse.

I don’t understand why there is a problem streaming hi def files now. What is doing the rendering? If you are simply using the Apple’s music playing software and outputting using the Mac’s elecrical or optical S/PDIF, that will be limiting your available sound quality.

As you have a Mac Mini already, al alternative solution suggests itself: There is an app called Audirvana that is capable of extremely good spund quality, that runs on Macs. It lends itself very well to the MAC Mini, being possible to run ‘headless’ with no keyboard or monitor, so limiting interferences. It can bypass the Mac’s sound hardware and drivers and output via USB, which can then feed to a DAC, though depending on the DAC, some form of RF isolation could be essential. That approach would open up use of alternative DACs to maximise sound quality, for example Chord Hugo (though Qutest probably better than Hugo for RF isolation reasons), through to Dave. I‘m not sure whether the nDAC’s  USB inputs would work with it, nor do I know how well those inputs are at RF isolation, otherwise I’d suggest getting a free trial of Audirvana to see what you think before moving forward. Oh, and if you want to use iTunes, Audirvana does have a mode enabling it as the interface, though is said to have a negative effect on sound quality (which is not a pronblem to me because I hate iTunes with a vengeance!) 

This is not suggesting that an Audirvana based solution would better the NDS, just pointing out a possible thing to try given where you are coming from - and much would depend on your DAC preference for presentation. Hugo in particular has been particularly popular as an alternative at least to the older Naim DACs, with quite a few people having added it to ‘upgrade’ various Naim products (e.g. NDX), though others have tried and have rejected - a classic case of needing to hear, but maybe worth some reading up.

You'd need a NAS if you had an NDS. Ideally one with 2 HDD so you have continuous back-up. Then copy across your old lossless files to it and use the NAS as your music server for all your streamers. Future files can be ripped/downloaded direct to the NAS in your chosen lossless format. Netgear another option. None will cost you a fortune measured against the value of your system.

Definitely best to be wired into the Router, not WiFi or Ethernet-over-mains.

In theory you could attach your USB drive to the USB socket of the NDS each time you wanted to play files but that would be pretty clunky way of doing things and they'd not be available to the Musos that way.

Bruce

PS Cannot help you with the Apple Music and other streaming suggestions above, don't have any knowledge of those. All my music is ripped or downloaded.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I don’t understand why there is a problem streaming hi def files now. What is doing the rendering? If you are simply using the Apple’s music playing software and outputting using the Mac’s elecrical or optical S/PDIF, that will be limiting your available sound quality.

As you have a Mac Mini already, al alternative solution suggests itself: There is an app called Audirvana that is capable of extremely good spund quality, that runs on Macs.

He also owns 2 Musos.  Audirvana is not a UPNP server; it does squat for the Musos even if connected to an NDS.

And the NDS doesn't "see" many USB hard drives; thumb drives are more reliable.  And then the issues of having to pull the drive and put it into a computer to add music to it . . . the parade of horribles continues.

Many thanks for all the information.

My main goal is to increase the SQ of the main system 

Interesting about Audivana, I will give that a go, but I have a nasty feeling I have a case of upgraditis. Thanks for  the airport express suggestion

I use ethernet wherever possible.

Regarding the Apple music quality, yes it is not good but I find it great for discovery and then I buy either the CD or Hi Res files. Elton John has a great show every week for an hour and his knowledge is encylopeadic and ecclectic which i lovw. However when using Airplay it only allows 1 device which is weird as the normal streaming has no such limitation. I was hoping to bypass this by outputting from the mini mac to an input on the NDS then using the upnp protocol to stream to my Musos.

It's never simple is it!

Ah I missed the previous post about Audivana...but does this not say it does stream to network players. Sorry i am really lost with all this stuff

https://audirvana.com/network-playback/

I use and Ifi audio spdif out of the mini mac to the Naim DAC. I use Fidelia for Hi Res which is very limited in usability but I think sounds better than the others

Bart posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

I don’t understand why there is a problem streaming hi def files now. What is doing the rendering? If you are simply using the Apple’s music playing software and outputting using the Mac’s elecrical or optical S/PDIF, that will be limiting your available sound quality.

As you have a Mac Mini already, al alternative solution suggests itself: There is an app called Audirvana that is capable of extremely good spund quality, that runs on Macs.

He also owns 2 Musos.  Audirvana is not a UPNP server; it does squat for the Musos even if connected to an NDS.

And the NDS doesn't "see" many USB hard drives; thumb drives are more reliable.  And then the issues of having to pull the drive and put it into a computer to add music to it . . . the parade of horribles continues.

Actually the more recent versions of Audirvana do have a UPnP function, so it can be used with Musos, as well as providing a high quality rendered output to a DAC (though I have no idea if those function concurrently as I only have the pre-UPnP version, having just the one music system).

Not sure what tge rest of your response means, as I was meaning instead of NDS not with NDS, and its difficulties with USB drives would be irrelevant.

Audivrvana does stream to UPnP / DLNA compatible renderers. I'm using the Windows 10 Audivrvana version. Show Audivrvana where the music is, (NAS, Tidal, local disk, USB drive). Then tell Audivrvana where to output the sound (local sound card, USB dac, network device). I use it to stream to a Muso and other DLNA devices on my home network.

Davidr posted:

I currently run a nDAC/PS555 using a mini mac two an old 52/supercap, 2 x 135s and Sonus Faber Olumpia speakers. I also have a Muso and Muso Q and therein lies the problem. I am forever getting frustrated with not being able to stream hi-res files so am thinking of upgrading to a second hand NDS

The model is from 2014; some questions:

1. WIll I notice a difference in my main listening room
2. As it is from 2014 will it need an upgrade /service?

 

A slightly different question should I go DR with the PS? Or any other component? I think I prefer the sound of the olives so am reticient but am interested in views.

Many thanks

Connect an Allo DigiOne Signature to your nDAC using a Naim DC1 cable and run MinimServer + upmpdcli on the RPi hosting the DigiOne. This will allow you to serve high resolution files (and Tidal, Qobuz, internet radio, etc.) to your nDAC and to the Musos. You can later compare this solution to a second hand NDS and decide for yourself which one you prefer.

Just to be clear, you do not “need” a NAS, as a couple of posts have claimed. What you need is a UPnP server. Most people choose to run this software on a NAS which also stores their music. This may be something you choose to do at some stage, but your Mac Mini will do it too. It will run a UPnP server such as Asset or Minimserver, which are the most popular choices with Naim streamers, as well as the one included with Audirvana. Keeping the Mac allows you to continue with Apple Music too, so it seems to me like keeping it and running, say, Asset on it would be a good way forward. 

Davidr posted:

I currently run a nDAC/PS555 using a mini mac two an old 52/supercap, 2 x 135s and Sonus Faber Olumpia speakers. I also have a Muso and Muso Q and therein lies the problem. I am forever getting frustrated with not being able to stream hi-res files so am thinking of upgrading to a second hand NDS

The model is from 2014; some questions:

1. WIll I notice a difference in my main listening room
2. As it is from 2014 will it need an upgrade /service?

 

You will find the NDS/555PS very different sounding to the NDAC/555PS.and I would definitely recommend trying out/auditioning.  At the time the NDS came out I was keen to see if it could replace my NDAC/555PS and NDX, and as much as I tried I could never fall in love with the NDS sound... and I had some veeery long home demos ...  so I kept my NDAC/555PS and had it fed by the NDX... it was a very very good combo... albeit three boxes.... but I put it all on its own Fraim so looked quite neat and sounded fantastic with a georgous organic sound with incredible weight and drive. The NDS is cleaner and resolves better, but to my ears was as enjoyable.... clearly massively subjective... but the NDAC and NDS are very different sounds despite sharing the same DSP approach and DAC chips.

BTW the NDS seems most at home with DR power supplies.

Thank you all for trhe most fantastic advice. I know what I shall be doing next weekend

Simon makes a good point about the comparative sound quality of the NDS vs your current system. We were all a bit too bogged down with discussions of functionality to mention this. (Back in the day, the thread would no doubt have been diverted by use of the H word too!)

Well perhaps it’s telling I replaced my NDAC with an H.. and I still have it though my NAC has moved from a 282 to a 552 in that time....

...sorry.please forgive my ingorance ...H word?

Davidr posted:

...sorry.please forgive my ingorance ...H word?

Hugo.  A portable Dac made by Chord.

aaaah.

Thank you all for such a wealth of information.