LFD NCSE Mk 3

Which Harbeth? 

I have heard this amp with every Harbeth, except the 40.2's.  Can't seem to find that speaker around anywhere, it's a rare breed due to the cost. LFD and Harbeth are a match made in heaven.  Harbeth's don't have the tightest bass control around and the LFD amp really takes care of that.  What they do very well is bring out the tonality of the music.

I've also heard the amp with ProAc's; namely 2.5's, D48R's (that was amazing) and Tablette Anniversary.  Don't recommend that little speaker unless you have a smooth tube amp.  If you like British rock music and blues, ProAc is really much more of an engaging speaker than Harbeth.  My Response D 48R's go down to 20 hz and shake the walls when I play Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin.   The new ribbon tweeter on the ProAc makes the speaker so open and airy it's scares the sh-- out of you.  I was listening to Live at Leeds and for the first time noticed a background noise I'd never heard before.  It was a low level rumble and I played it over and over.  Turns out to be something like a truck passing by the stadium and the mike picked it up during the recording.  

I was always interested in listening to the LFD sound to compare it with my NAIT 3 but unfortunately, no one carries it in the mid-west and it is never represented in the major Hi Fi shows.

Midwest USA?  I am from Illinois myself. I am in NJ now and miss the food in the Midwest.

The Nait 3 is the best integrated amp Naim has ever made IMHO. The LFD has all of that PRAT you are used to hearing but way more detail in the mid range and upper frequencies.  It's also way more powerful and can drive the piss out of any speaker.  I just brought mine over to a guy who has a pair of $38,000 Magico speakers and we almost dropped our jaws at how much bass was coming out of this thing.

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps.  These amps are that good and for real, but they take a good month or two to really open up.  

I will warn you, once you hear this amplifier you will not want to give it back.   There are three versions of the LFD integrated and the one you will want without question is the NSCE Mk 3.

What speakers are you using?

Mike 

Mike, thanks for your input. I live in northern Illinois.

The speakers I use (which you can see on my profile) are PROAC Response 1.5 purchased with the NAIT in 1999. Since I never play loud music and the material I listen to is an easy load (small ensembles of jazz and classical chamber music) I was trying to listen to the LFD LE Mark IV or V. This is more an interest without any urgency because I am perfectly satisfied with my current-ancient little system. 

Haim

Well first your Nait 3 needs a recap, if you have not done one already.  Naim amps use electrolytic capacitors, which dry out after about 7 - 10 years.  Without a recap your amplifier could eventually go up in smoke, creating a fire hazard or damaging your amplifier.  I had a Nait 2 that did just this.  Also, the amp is performing about 30% of it's performance if the caps are that old.  

Chris West at AV Options will completely rebuild your Nait 3 from top to bottom and improve the phono-stage if you have one.  He will also try and sell you an upgraded power chord.  I did this all on my Nait 2 and Chris did an amazing job.  However, the total cost was $2,100.  It makes better sense to sell the Nait 3 and buy either a slightly used but newer model Naim integrated (with remote already!) or an LFD.  If you are sticking with Naim, get the XS2 integrated, not the XS.  The XS2 is way better than any of the 5 series integrated amps and every so often they will show up on line on the used market.

I'm glad you are not in any hurry because it takes about four months to get an LFD amplifier.  They are hand made by one person and each component is painstakingly listened to and tweaked until the amplifier is just right.

If you are looking for something used, my advice is to get a used NCSE Mk 2.  There is one on line right now for sale, but I'm sure who the seller is - try looking on Audiogon.  I owned the Mk IV and Mk V and I sold them both after I purchased the NCSE.  They are great integrated amps but the NCSE is in a class by itself.  Much better in every category and more powerful, which means that low level listening sessions will be more dynamic.  I guarantee that if you get any LFD amp you will want to rediscover all of your music all over again.  A used NCSE is much better value than a new Mk IV or Mk 5 or even a Mk 5+.  The NCSE is a much different animal than the other integrated's, especially in the power supply section, wiring and attenuation (volume). 

Moderated post:  PACMI03, please could you comply forum rules.  Thank you.

Am perfectly happy with my Naim Supernait2

I guess it's the pairing that matters more than anything else. 

Njoi the music. . 

Haim Ronen posted:

Mike, thanks for your input. I live in northern Illinois.

The speakers I use (which you can see on my profile) are PROAC Response 1.5 purchased with the NAIT in 1999. Since I never play loud music and the material I listen to is an easy load (small ensembles of jazz and classical chamber music) I was trying to listen to the LFD LE Mark IV or V. This is more an interest without any urgency because I am perfectly satisfied with my current-ancient little system. 

Haim

Well first your Nait 3 needs a recap, if you have not done one already.  Naim amps use electrolytic capacitors, which dry out after about 7 - 10 years.  Without a recap your amplifier could eventually go up in smoke, creating a fire hazard or damaging your amplifier.  I had a Nait 2 that did just this.  Also, the amp is performing about 30% of it's performance if the caps are that old.  

Chris West at AV Options will completely rebuild your Nait 3 from top to bottom and improve the phono-stage if you have one.  He will also try and sell you an upgraded power chord.  I did this all on my Nait 2 and Chris did an amazing job.  However, the total cost was $2,100.  It makes better sense to sell the Nait 3 and buy either a slightly used but newer model Naim integrated (with remote already!) or an LFD.  If you are sticking with Naim, get the XS2 integrated, not the XS.  The XS2 is way better than any of the 5 series integrated amps and every so often they will show up on line on the used market.

I'm glad you are not in any hurry because it takes about four months to get an LFD amplifier.  They are hand made by one person and each component is painstakingly listened to and tweaked until the amplifier is just right.

If you are looking for something used, my advice is to get a used NCSE Mk 2.  There is one on line right now for sale, but I'm sure who the seller is - try looking on Agon.  I owned the Mk IV and Mk V and I sold them both after I purchased the NCSE.  They are great integrated amps but the NCSE is in a class by itself.  Much better in every category and more powerful, which means that low level listening sessions will be more dynamic.  I guarantee that if you get any LFD amp you will want to rediscover all of your music all over again.  A used NCSE is much better value than a new Mk IV or Mk 5 or even a Mk 5+.  The NCSE is a much different animal than the other integrated's, especially in the power supply section, wiring and attenuation (volume). 

pacmi03 posted:

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps. 

Very interesting comment! I think I have heard it before, and my guess is that these customers do not have the Naim gears setup properly by the dealers? 

In my opinion, Naim customer support outside the UK is very patchy.

Frank Yang posted:

pacmi03 posted:

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps. 

Very interesting comment! I think I have heard it before, and my guess is that these customers do not have the Naim gears setup properly by the dealers? 

In my opinion, Naim customer support outside the UK is a question mark? 

Why jump into any conclusion about NAIM customer support elsewhere? The down-grader had probably figured out that he could get 90% of the sound quality for 10% of the price (not to mention the saving in space and simplicity) and went for the LFD.

Haim Ronen posted:

Frank Yang posted:

pacmi03 posted:

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps. 

Very interesting comment! I think I have heard it before, and my guess is that these customers do not have the Naim gears setup properly by the dealers? 

In my opinion, Naim customer support outside the UK is a question mark? 

Why jump into any conclusion about NAIM customer support elsewhere? The down-grader had probably figured out that he could get 90% of the sound quality for 10% of the price (not to mention the saving in space and simplicity) and went for the LFD.

Not jump into a conclusion, I have heard the LFD NCSE before.

Frank Yang posted:

pacmi03 posted:

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps. 

Very interesting comment! I think I have heard it before, and my guess is that these customers do not have the Naim gears setup properly by the dealers? 

In my opinion, Naim customer support outside the UK is a question mark? 

Neither is the case here.   There is good customer support here in the states from a company/distributor in Toronto and former Naim service guy named Chris West at a company called AV Options.  Both are excellent facilities when it comes to servicing Naim gear.  The real answer is probably one or both of the following reasons.  One is a lifestyle change whereby the customer is just not in an acquisition mode anymore and wants to simplify their life and likes the convenience of an integrated amplifier.  The other is that the customer has had their 552/500 system for a decade or so and does not want to incur the cost of recapping a 552/500.  Here in the states that is quite expensive, over a $10,000 USD repair job.

Haim Ronen posted:

Frank Yang posted:

pacmi03 posted:

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps. 

Very interesting comment! I think I have heard it before, and my guess is that these customers do not have the Naim gears setup properly by the dealers? 

In my opinion, Naim customer support outside the UK is a question mark? 

Why jump into any conclusion about NAIM customer support elsewhere? The down-grader had probably figured out that he could get 90% of the sound quality for 10% of the price (not to mention the saving in space and simplicity) and went for the LFD.

...and bypass the $10,000 it would cost to recap a 552/500 combo. 

pacmi03 posted:

Haim Ronen posted:

Frank Yang posted:

pacmi03 posted:

There have been LFD customers who have traded in their 552/500 for one of these amps. 

Very interesting comment! I think I have heard it before, and my guess is that these customers do not have the Naim gears setup properly by the dealers? 

In my opinion, Naim customer support outside the UK is a question mark? 

Why jump into any conclusion about NAIM customer support elsewhere? The down-grader had probably figured out that he could get 90% of the sound quality for 10% of the price (not to mention the saving in space and simplicity) and went for the LFD.

...and bypass the $10,000 it would cost to recap a 552/500 combo. 

Got it, now I fully understand. I was in a similar dilemma before, sometimes it is very hard to justify the cost of a 552/500 combo recap.

Can you imagine the cost of recapping a Statement system?  Oooph!!

Personally, I don’t find that any of the LFD amps ( intetgrated or other ) have the timing of there equal in Naim.I do find that the LFD products do have a very coherent mid range, but they just do not have the swing that Naim has. The lack of remote for what ever reason that LFD claims is a real deal breaker for many. I’m a fan of there phono stage but again I do not find it has the swing to the music that Naim has.

I guess one buys what they like in the end and that’s a great thing and it could be also they type of music one likes to listen to but for me LFD and Harbeth don’t do Rock so again MMV on that as well. 

Enjoy 

I totally agree with you on the LFD amps, except for the NCSE Mk 3.  That amp was a complete upgrade in bass performance is a much more powerful than the older amps.  Also, I agree that not having a remote kind'a sucks.  Check out the new Mk 3 if you can find a dealer nearby.  I'd be curious to see what your opinion is after hearing it. 

Hey PACM103 did you also by the LFD speaker wire ? 

pacmi03 posted:

I have heard this amp with every Harbeth, except the 40.2's.  Can't seem to find that speaker around anywhere, it's a rare breed due to the cost. LFD and Harbeth are a match made in heaven.  Harbeth's don't have the tightest bass control around and the LFD amp really takes care of that.  What they do very well is bring out the tonality of the music.

I've also heard the amp with ProAc's; namely 2.5's, D48R's (that was amazing) and Tablette Anniversary.  Don't recommend that little speaker unless you have a smooth tube amp.  If you like British rock music and blues, ProAc is really much more of an engaging speaker than Harbeth.  My Response D 48R's go down to 20 hz and shake the walls when I play Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin.   The new ribbon tweeter on the ProAc makes the speaker so open and airy it's scares the sh-- out of you.  I was listening to Live at Leeds and for the first time noticed a background noise I'd never heard before.  It was a low level rumble and I played it over and over.  Turns out to be something like a truck passing by the stadium and the mike picked it up during the recording.  

 

Thanks for the response. Perhaps with the LFD NCSE Mk3. I've tried the LFD Zero LEIII on the Harbeth SHL5 many years ago and the combination did sound quite spectacular at that time, sounding more like the real thing than the speakers driven by my costlier pre/power separates , Rega and Nait XS just to name a few. However, I settled for the 202/200 in the end as the lack of remote control and poor build quality of the LFD Zero LE III are the deal breaker for me. In areas of sound quality somehow the LFD Zero LE III sounds very energetic and lively with a certain sweetness to the sound, perhaps surpassing the Naim in these areas. The bass although taut and tight does not go very deep though. 

I suspect the NCSE Mk3 would be a huge improvement over the Zero LEIII in both sound and build quality but I'm not losing too much sleep on it as the Harbeth is still capable of sounding good if not great with the Naim, specifically 202/200 range and above. It's just a different sonic presentation between the LFD and Naim when matched with Harbeth loudspeakers. I currently use 282/250/HCDR with the SHL5 Plus and this combination sounds very good to me. I have no doubts the Harbeth can sound even better (or perhaps just different) with the LFD NCSE Mk3 but it does not bother me too much. The lack of remote is the real deal breaker for me. 

The Naim and Harbeth pairing may not be the ultimate but in my experience and preference the Naim is a much better choice than the Rega (Elicit) and Plinius, or any amps that sound smooth and laidback. 

pacmi03, Gene is a class act, isn't he? I bought some Naim from him in the past.  A few years back I had half a mind to demo said LFD after chatting with him on the phone. The deal breaker for me was lack of remote, so I dropped the notion. Now I'm on to a Plinius integrated.

Pacmi03, please ensure you have read and fully understood forum rules, thank you.

I owned the original ncse (very nice) but the one I adored was my Zero Mkiv SE. This was the sweetest sounding amp I ever remember hearing.

But I enjoyed it for only 6 months as I’m very lazy and got fed up with the constant getting up and down to sort the volume. Miss it though. Apparently, to wish for an LFD with remote is pointless as it will affect its sound, is this true?

pacmi03 posted:

 .  If you are sticking with Naim, get the XS2 integrated, not the XS.  The XS2 is way better than any of the 5 series integrated amps and every so often they will show up on line on the used market.

I'm glad you are not in any hurry because it takes about four months to get an LFD amplifier.  They are hand made by one person and each component is painstakingly listened to and tweaked until the amplifier is just right.

 

Fwiw somebody prefer XS over XS2

The LFD amplication I've heard had some great advantages but ultimately lacked in Prat for me

Sometime people preech on various forums they have found wisdom, that is fine with me, just as long as they let it be and calm down again, nothing is perfect

You seem to refer to some marketing blurp and that is fine with me

You seem entusiastic happy with your choice, fine and whats it all about