New and full review of NDX2

Might be a bit early for that to come out.  An older NDS would be much better than a new NDX2.  The NDX series uses Opamps in their output stage, which require a feedback loop.  It's very efficient and constant in it's design but is a compromise with regards to sound quality.  The NDS uses a discrete output stage that is well above the performance on an NDX.  If I were you'd I'd wait for a used NDS to come about.  Unless you are a guy who needs Roon and the latest number to be on the outside of the box. 

gramophone posted:

The review is in hificritic.com. 

Anyone buy hificritic and prepared to give a summary of the review?

Especially as the magazine offers a teaser of a free excerpt of that review, which does not quite get to the interesting part. But the review is just one other person's view of the device.

funny- my dealer told me, that the NDX2 with PSU is better than NDS! This test shows the opposite it seems....

Worth bearing in mind that it's a joint review by Andrew Everard and Martin Colloms. I'd be interested to know what Martin Colloms makes of it but we already know Andrew Everdard's verdict from the recent review in HiFi News.

T38.45 posted:

funny- my dealer told me, that the NDX2 with PSU is better than NDS! This test shows the opposite it seems....

 

Have you actually read the full review in hificritic.com?

By my reading of Andrew Everard's recent review in HiFi News, he seems to judge an NDX2 with PS555 to be roughly on a par with an NDS, offering slightly more detail but a bit less boogie factor. So it would seem rather odd if he were to deviate from that in this latest review in hificritic.com.

pacmi03 posted:

Might be a bit early for that to come out.  An older NDS would be much better than a new NDX2.  The NDX series uses Opamps in their output stage, which require a feedback loop.  It's very efficient and constant in it's design but is a compromise with regards to sound quality.  The NDS uses a discrete output stage that is well above the performance on an NDX.  If I were you'd I'd wait for a used NDS to come about.  Unless you are a guy who needs Roon and the latest number to be on the outside of the box. 

IIRC, the NDX2 has moved up to a discrete filtering and a discrete output stage.

Bear in mind it also incorporates much of the advance brought about with the ND555, such as LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signalling) for example, and also uses the new improved streaming platform.  To me it appears to be a significant upgrade over the outgoing NDX.

no, I didn't read the review...just mentioned my dealer's impression here...

the new NDX2 has brought in more questions than answers since I heard it last week, the reason for the ???? is I thought straight swap from NDX > NDX2 but having heard both NDX2 in seperate room and then the  ND 555 and NDS on the same system (i posted my thoughts on main ND 555 thread)

the NDX2 had only arrived at dealers couple of ours before the demo, and was shown bare but with 252/SCDR/300DR - I am back at the dealers this weekend so will try and see how NDX2 has changed over the week or so - it was getting better during the demo over an hour or so

have a current NDX so the battle for me will be NDS/555 vs NDX2/555 but I am in now hurry to change, and I don't want roon or Cromecast, only worry is the future of higher rate digital music which neither NDX or NDS will play currently, but my NDX is not my main source

Antony D, any update on this? I had not followed up this thread. A couple of months ago I had compared at home the Burmester 151 MusicCenter with my NDX and they sounded very similar. Just reading this thread today I realized that apparently both have op amps in the output stage and this might account for what I heard (or not heard).

And the technical details on this thread from Richard help explain why the NDX2 might be better than NDX despite no changes in the DAC itself. Moreover, I read today in the German Stereoplay magazine a review of the NDX2 (not a really good review to be honest, there was no comparison with NDX or testing of the power supply options) which however gave a very favorable rating very close to NDS. 

I had given up on the idea of checking the NDX2 as an upgrade option but some of these details have renewed my interest in trying it out.

DrPo posted:

Antony D, any update on this? I had not followed up this thread. A couple of months ago I had compared at home the Burmester 151 MusicCenter with my NDX and they sounded very similar. Just reading this thread today I realized that apparently both have op amps in the output stage and this might account for what I heard (or not heard).

And the technical details on this thread from Richard help explain why the NDX2 might be better than NDX despite no changes in the DAC itself. Moreover, I read today in the German Stereoplay magazine a review of the NDX2 (not a really good review to be honest, there was no comparison with NDX or testing of the power supply options) which however gave a very favorable rating very close to NDS. 

I had given up on the idea of checking the NDX2 as an upgrade option but some of these details have renewed my interest in trying it out.

Hi DrPro,

I’ve had the NDX2 on home demo for the last couple of days. I already have 555PSDR (currently powering my nDAC) so I was keen to hear the difference between NDX2 bare vs NDX2 with PSU. After tinkering over the weekend with various setups, the winner for me is NDX2 with digital out (via BNC) into nDAC powered by 555PSDR. It sounds stunning on Tidal, Linn internet radio, and streaming from my Core via uPnP. There’s much better sound imaging and extended bass via nDAC with PSU.  I know many would say that it’s a waste using NDX2 as a transport and a more sensible option would be to use a ND5XS2 for example. However, there’s been much debate in the forums about streamers not necessarily having the same digital out capabilities. I would rate the NDX2 in this setup to be equal to, or if not better than NDS. I will definitely be picking up my NDX2 on order from the dealers this weekend. I will continue experimenting with the setup but for now, NDX2 with nDAC and 555PSDR gets my vote.

I would look also at a second hand nds, very good prices now, and apparently the nds has still the edge vs ndx2 for sound quality.

Surely as the ND5XS2 is now with some dealers, why not wait and see what SQ it gives as a transport?

Gazza posted:

Surely as the ND5XS2 is now with some dealers, why not wait and see what SQ it gives as a transport?

Agreed, seems sensible but knowing that my NDX2 is waiting at the dealers, I’ve got used to the NDX2 screen, and I have a 282 arriving at the weekend.. you get my drift :-)

I know the feeling it’s the one you want and listened to and it’s in etc.....just do it. It should sound marvellous......have a great weekend.

DrPo posted:

Antony D, any update on this? I had not followed up this thread. A couple of months ago I had compared at home the Burmester 151 MusicCenter with my NDX and they sounded very similar. Just reading this thread today I realized that apparently both have op amps in the output stage and this might account for what I heard (or not heard).

And the technical details on this thread from Richard help explain why the NDX2 might be better than NDX despite no changes in the DAC itself. Moreover, I read today in the German Stereoplay magazine a review of the NDX2 (not a really good review to be honest, there was no comparison with NDX or testing of the power supply options) which however gave a very favorable rating very close to NDS. 

I had given up on the idea of checking the NDX2 as an upgrade option but some of these details have renewed my interest in trying it out.

as we stand today i have not done anything more than lisen to the NDX2 twice with different set ups 252/SCDR/300 & 282?HCDR/250DR

from my point of view the NDX2 is a step up from NDX but not light and day, same goes for NDS vs ND555 ,but having heard the NDX2 with Kudos Titans 505 on the end of it WOW!

I am attending the new Linn DSM demos next week at my dealers, so I hope from then to have a plan in place to move forward and dealer has confirmed T505's so direct comparasion

my future system is going to based around my Lp12 and that will be my main source, so I may well keep my current NDX and put money into LP12??

sorry that does not help really, apart from the prev NDX & NDS are bloody good streamers period and I need to decide on a the best derection of travel for me which is another thread all together

bongoman posted:

DrPo posted:

Antony D, any update on this? I had not followed up this thread. A couple of months ago I had compared at home the Burmester 151 MusicCenter with my NDX and they sounded very similar. Just reading this thread today I realized that apparently both have op amps in the output stage and this might account for what I heard (or not heard).

And the technical details on this thread from Richard help explain why the NDX2 might be better than NDX despite no changes in the DAC itself. Moreover, I read today in the German Stereoplay magazine a review of the NDX2 (not a really good review to be honest, there was no comparison with NDX or testing of the power supply options) which however gave a very favorable rating very close to NDS. 

I had given up on the idea of checking the NDX2 as an upgrade option but some of these details have renewed my interest in trying it out.

Hi DrPro,

I’ve had the NDX2 on home demo for the last couple of days. I already have 555PSDR (currently powering my nDAC) so I was keen to hear the difference between NDX2 bare vs NDX2 with PSU. After tinkering over the weekend with various setups, the winner for me is NDX2 with digital out (via BNC) into nDAC powered by 555PSDR. It sounds stunning on Tidal, Linn internet radio, and streaming from my Core via uPnP. There’s much better sound imaging and extended bass via nDAC with PSU.  I know many would say that it’s a waste using NDX2 as a transport and a more sensible option would be to use a ND5XS2 for example. However, there’s been much debate in the forums about streamers not necessarily having the same digital out capabilities. I would rate the NDX2 in this setup to be equal to, or if not better than NDS. I will definitely be picking up my NDX2 on order from the dealers this weekend. I will continue experimenting with the setup but for now, NDX2 with nDAC and 555PSDR gets my vote.

Interesting, thanks for the report! Since you have found out that you prefer

NDX 2 > nDAC + 555PSDR

to

NDX 2 + 555PSDR

you could also consider pure transports like the dCS Network Bridge or the DigiOne Signature into nDAC + 555PSDR. Another interesting test would be

NDX 2 > nDAC + 555PSDR

vs

NDX 2 > NDX 2 + 555PSDR

This looks like the ultimate waste of resources but if you do not care about redundancies in your system it might be worth trying. By the way, have you tried

Core > nDAC + 555PSDR

? This might sound as good as or better than

NDX 2 > nDAC + 555PSDR

and would reduce your box count by one. No display, however. Have fun and enjoy whatever you'll go for!

Hi nbpf,

Yes, I’ve been using Core > nDAC > 555PSDR for some time now. Compared to NDX2 in same configuration (with Core via PnP mode) the NDX2 beats it. I agree this is a waste of resources with NDX2 into nDAC. It may be that I just need to get used to hearing NDX2 > 555PSDR. The nDAC with 555PSDR has been in my system for some time so I’m used to the sound. I’ll be getting a 282 at the weekend, along with trialling some ATC SM40s so hoping things will open up considerably.

Thanks all for the replies. I agree on NDX being bloody good. I tried two alternative at home and could not justify the difference. Next in the pipe is the dSC Bartok :-) 

I had a direct comparison of an NDS and NDX2. The NDS won hands down on everything. There was no comparison. Look for a second hand or ex demo.

Looks like I got lucky. I traded in my 272 for a nDac/Nac72. nDac is fed by AlloDigiOne (ROON, upnp).

I’ve been reading about dcs Network Bridge as per nbpf’s suggestion. Looks like a great piece of kit - I’m seriously tempted and no redundancy with nDAC

bongoman posted:

I’ve been reading about dcs Network Bridge as per nbpf’s suggestion. Looks like a great piece of kit - I’m seriously tempted and no redundancy with nDAC

I have no first hand experience of the dCS. You have tried the NDX 2 and the Core as transports for nDAC + 555PSDR. Thus, you are be in the best situation to compare them to the DigiOne Signature or to the dCS. If you do so, please report your findings. No matter what you'll do, enjoy testing the 282 and the ATC SM40s!

MangoMonkey posted:

Looks like I got lucky. I traded in my 272 for a nDac/Nac72. nDac is fed by AlloDigiOne (ROON, upnp).

You could then do the nDAC a favor and upgrade the DigiOne to the DigiOne Signature!

bongoman posted:

I’ve been reading about dcs Network Bridge as per nbpf’s suggestion. Looks like a great piece of kit - I’m seriously tempted and no redundancy with nDAC

If you are considering going for an Ethernet to SPDIF transport, you could also have a look at Allo's new DigiOne Signature. It apparently offers very low jitter outputs and if you run both upmpdcli and MinimServer on its RPi host you can even UPnP stream from local drives. As a bonus, you get  gapless replay of Qobuz, Tidal, etc. You'll loose the capability of controlling the renderer via the Naim app. This would also be the case if you go for the dCS. I do not know the dCS app but I prefer BubbleUPnP to the Naim app. Perhaps it is just a matter of habit, as in many other cases. Enjoy the journey and please report your findings!