Fault on CB NAP250 - diagnoses welcomed

Donkeyhaute posted:

As a last resort, I turned the SU's internal amp onto 'All outputs' (I'm not sure what this means), rather than 'internal' or 'external'.  Now there's sound.

 

Having resisted the urge to reply, "RTFM".... setting the SU to 'all outputs' enables both the internal power amp and the pre-out you were presumably using, as well as the sub out. As you might expect, 'internal' enables just the built in power amp, and 'external' enables just the pre and sub out, and disables the internal power amp. That doesn't explain why you get no sound when it's set to 'external' so maybe there's a fault in the SU somewhere. I wonder if restarting it, or even resetting it to factory defaults, would be worth a try.

From the manual:

Hmm. I've just been reading para 4.4 of  the SU manual and it should work when set to external.

The "all outputs" setting just enables both the internal amplifier and the external socket too (and the sub-woofer output).

Obviously the interconnect and the output socket on the SU work ok, as does the NAP250. If it were me I would do a factory reset of your SU now. You do that using the remote, press the spanner/wrench button and navigate to factory reset. You will lose all your presets though and have to set them up again. 

Best

David

Three minds all in the same space here!

Yes. You are quite correct. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I should have read the manual rather than plaguing you all. I hate this in others but seem to tolerate it in myself. Good lesson here for those with large penises.

But I'm thankful you replied. In a sexy way.

So basically, the external pre-out (as Richard suggested) is knackered. Somehow i'm bypassing it by activating both the SU's own power amp and the NAP 250.  Is there an easy way to fix this? 

Obviously, I'd prefer the internal SU amp to be off at this point, for sound benefits, and I'm curious as to what could break the 'external only' option? Is it a software or hardware problem? Can't be an electrical short on the same cable.

Surely it can't be related to my upping and downing the firmware ladder earlier in the year and losing friends? 

I'm now going to sacrifice my cat as a votive offering to the Lares. And possibly Terrificus, the God of domestic electrics.

How can the same pre-out port work, or not work, due to different software settings? External; no dice. All Outputs: fine.

Great minds think alike

I'd also run a full factory re-set of the SuperUniti.

Donkeyhaute posted:

 

How can the same pre-out port work, or not work, due to different software settings? External; no dice. All Outputs: fine.

 

 

Leaving the poor cat aside, I'd run a full factory re-set.
If it's illogical from a mechanical engineering point of view, it's most likely software-related...

Donkeyhaute posted:

Yes. You are quite correct. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I should have read the manual rather than plaguing you all. I hate this in others but seem to tolerate it in myself. Good lesson here for those with large penises.

But I'm thankful you replied. In a sexy way.

So basically, the external pre-out (as Richard suggested) is knackered. Somehow i'm bypassing it by activating both the SU's own power amp and the NAP 250.  Is there an easy way to fix this? 

Obviously, I'd prefer the internal SU amp to be off at this point, for sound benefits, and I'm curious as to what could break the 'external only' option? Is it a software or hardware problem? Can't be an electrical short on the same cable.

Surely it can't be related to my upping and downing the firmware ladder earlier in the year and losing friends? 

I'm now going to sacrifice my cat as a votive offering to the Lares. And possibly Nigel, the God of domestic electrics.

How can the same pre-out port work, or not work, due to different software settings? External; no dice. All Outputs: fine.

 

 

It can't be a hardware fault, so it's a software glitch. So therefore a factory reset of the SU is definitely called for, if a simple restart didn't fix it.

Best

David

If the factory reset doesn't fix it, you could, as a test, try connecting the power amp to the 'sub out' which is essentially the same as the pre out, except that it has RCA instead of DIN connectors, so you would need a suitable lead or adapter. It may not prove anything, but it might just help narrow things down. Other than that, I'm pretty much out of ideas other than taking it to a dealer.

Thanks all. I'll do factory reset on everything within reach. Tell my mother I love her.

Donkeyhaute posted:

Thanks all. I'll do factory reset on everything within reach. Tell my mother I love her.

Thy message shall be relayed...

I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and suggestions yesterday.  I've done the factory reset, as suggested, and firmware is holding steady at warp 4.4. However, sound only emerges when 'All Outputs' is selected, rather than 'External' on the SU's speaker menu - just as it happened yesterday.

So I'm flummoxed as to how this can be. The same mechanical pre-out that sends lovely signals to the NAP under 'All Outputs' refuses to work when given centre-stage on 'External'. And a software-based return to factory defaults doesn't alter this. 

Beside votive offerings, or an expensive trip, I'm officially stumped and have the shins to prove it.

We've now begun singing hymns at it, as though it were a capricious woodland deity, and placing valued artefacts upon the outermost tegument of its casing. It now smells of lavender, sausage meat and whisky* but still no dice.

*Mother's invited it to the pub.

I've been wondering off and on all day about how your factory reset went. I don't understand how this can be and let us not forget that it did it spontaneously, assuming the cleaner and the cat have been eliminated as responsible persons.

It has to be a hardware fault in the SU, as Richard suggested a while back, but an extremely odd one for sure.

So what to do? It won't hurt the SU to play music into no loudspeakers and I really doubt it would affect SQ either. So if it were me I would probably shrug my shoulders, say "it's one of those things" and carry on listening to the music with all outputs selected and with the whisky to hand. Votive offerings can probably be dispensed with at this stage!

A 272 which you questioned earlier is a great idea if you can find a good used one, but personally I wouldn't buy a new one now as I suspect it's days are numbered and I think that Naim have to be planning a successor soon (although when we visited the factory in the spring, no-one, including Trevor, would comment on that thought).

best

David

Thanks David, you make a lot of sense. Mystifying. The only (admittedly small) worry, is that if the internal amp is on, it means the SU's power supply is doing a couple more things at once -though maybe not if it's not working at amplifying anything in particular. As you say, it sounds more or less normal, although I haven't put everything back on the shelves yet and the NAP is sitting on top of the SU currently. As HH said earlier, 'a NAP is a NAP in this instance'. 

Would it help to try your SU into a friendly dealer's NAP250?

C.

i bet it's quite good with the CB 250 isn't it? 

When it works obviously

Christopher_M posted:

Would it help to try your SU into a friendly dealer's NAP250?

C.

Not as much as it would help to try a friendly dealer's SU into your NAP250!

I think I may have been tilting at the wrong windmill there.