What to get next?

Looks to me like you are thinking along the right lines. I would most definitely get a rack, those boxes will not be performing at their best stacked on top of each other! Fraim Lite would be great, although it's not cheap. You could also consider Hutter, Isoblue and Quadraspire. 

While you're looking at setup, isolate the HiFi from the TV and other electrical stuff. Put them on a separate mains circuit if possible, keeping those noisy cheap power supplies away from the HiFi supplies. Also, can you put the TV and any associated boxes on a separate support - or maybe put the TV on a wall shelf to decouple it from the Hifi?

Getting all this setup stuff optimised would be my first step. Then you know you are getting the most from your existing system, and you can plan any future upgrades from there. Good luck!

How about a second hand HiCap for the CD5? I put a refurbished Olive HiCap on mine and wow!

Separate shelves will help, but I don't think they will help so much. It can't sound awful if you've had it stacked for years. A rack will clean up the presentation somewhat. It's worth doing, but pumping up the source IMO will help more.

Top of one another Kills the sound.

Get it sorted the sooner

Stageline and possibly a flatcap to share with preamp as for upgrade.

Cd5i can't be upgraded. Is the element on the TT in good condition?

Sorry OP. I didn't notice that cheeky little "i" tucked in there. 

Thanks for these ideas and questions. I think after 14 (or more?) years the cartridge should probably be replaced.

A component rack is mandatory - Quadraspire is relatively affordable and very effective.  The service is also a good idea - I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results.  Given your source is a cd5i I'd skip the flatcap.  Everything (source/pre/amp) is pretty balanced level already.  

JimDog posted:

Thanks for these ideas and questions. I think after 14 (or more?) years the cartridge should probably be replaced.

Although I said you should get your system set up and optimised before spending any money on upgrades, I might make an exception for this! At least get it checked out. Having said that, if vinyl is important to you, you might even contemplate a turntable upgrade, in which case there's no point spending money on the old one.

I think a Quadraspire rack would be a good idea as your next step.

I would 100% get that system on a rack it doesn't have to be a really expensive one a £100 - £150 used Atacama, Target  or Sound Org will improve the sound your getting quite a lot and also I would upgrade the phono stage the one you have is for use with very, very cheap Project decks.  The Rega you have is a decent deck does it have the curved RB200 or the straight RB300 both are very good arms put a £100 cart on either of those with used a Rega Fono MM also £100 and for about £300 you would improve your system a great deal.                                                                                                        

JimDog posted:

 

I have a Rega Planar 3 turntable, Naim CD5i/NAC112x/NAP150x/Ariva N1501s (and a low end 'Pro-Ject Phono Box'!), all bought new in 2004.

 

Your Planar 3 and CD5 would love a upgrade pre to NAP72

if you can live without a remote control : )

Debs

Ardbeg - when you say the CD5i can't be upgraded, do you mean it cannot be serviced, or cannot be powered by a separate PSU, or something else?

Bob - the Rega has the straight arm. I will replace the cart as you suggest. I think I should also get the Rega 'Upgrade drive belt' that I just spotted, as my original is probably stretched. Do you know whether the Rega Fono MM MK2 or MK3 Phono Stage is better? Should the phono stage have a shelf of its own on a rack? Also, I just noticed that Rega have a '24v Aftermarket Motor Upgrade Kit' and a 'Neo turntable PSU' - do you know whether they are worth it?

Debs - I have the CD5i. Yes, I can take or leave remote controls if there's a better sound to be had. Do you mean get a NAC 72 preamp to replace my current preamp? Why 72, not 82 or 202 or another? Would this risk losing the power/sound balance of the system (it is played across the width of a room that is 11" x 22")? And would I need a PSU for the 72? Also, if I'm going to leap into the world of upgrading the system, is the preamp the place to start or should I first decide where I want to end up? Wouldn't getting a NAC 72 then tempt me to get a NAP 140 Power Amp or similar?

Thanks again for all these interesting and useful ideas.

Jim

JimDog posted:

 Also, I just noticed that Rega have a '24v Aftermarket Motor Upgrade Kit' and a 'Neo turntable PSU' - do you know whether they are worth it??

 

They definitely are.

But 24v kit comes at a cost and if you consider you can have it now  cost free when you purchase a new deck along with improvements in any area and a new arm ,it’s hard to justify the refurbish.

that s why I adviced you d better look for a better phono stage and have your deck jjust checked and fitted with a decent cart as that would sound better, leave you plenty of time to decide whether to improve ,replace with a newer Rega deck or even get a different better one and recycle the cart

JimDog posted:

Ardbeg - when you say the CD5i can't be upgraded, do you mean it cannot be serviced, or cannot be powered by a separate PSU, or something else

Indeed. No external Powersupply and / or DAC are possible.

JimDog posted:

Ardbeg - when you say the CD5i can't be upgraded, do you mean it cannot be serviced, or cannot be powered by a separate PSU, or something else?

Bob - the Rega has the straight arm. I will replace the cart as you suggest. I think I should also get the Rega 'Upgrade drive belt' that I just spotted, as my original is probably stretched. Do you know whether the Rega Fono MM MK2 or MK3 Phono Stage is better? Should the phono stage have a shelf of its own on a rack? Also, I just noticed that Rega have a '24v Aftermarket Motor Upgrade Kit' and a 'Neo turntable PSU' - do you know whether they are worth it?

 

I would think the Mk3 is better although I haven't heard it. I used a Mk2 for a year or so with a Linn Axis and for the money it was very good indeed these Fonos are quite small and don't really need a shelf of their own if you got a seperate psu for the deck they could probably share a shelf.

On the subject of a deck psu I would probably go with the older TTPSU as your deck is quite old and the if your buying a Neo and a Mk3 Fono and new motors then I'd probably be inclined to sell the Planar 3 and buy a used RP6 which go for about £550 and come with the TTPSU.                                                                                        

If it were me, I’d first get a Quadraspire stand, ideally in the bamboo variant. Use the 140mm or 100mm legs and it won’t be too tall. You can sometimes find them used. Then get a Rega MM phono stage, which is very good and costs £200. A Rega cartridge would be perfect; say an Elys 2 for £125. Finally, look for a used Flatcap 2x, which will lift the 112x considerably and shouldn’t cost much. 

Completely agree with the advice of buying a rack as a first move. I’d scour the usual secondhand places for an older Sound Organisation (or Target) multi level rack, as they sell for very little and will allow more cash to be spent elsewhere. Quadraspire as already mentioned, but they hold their value. Or a more stylish alternative (if buying new), like the Custom Designs Milan range, often seen and used at shows. Perhaps a DIY option if you are handy?

If vinyl is your primary source, then updating an old Planar 3 is quite costly - I recently looked into this before buying a used RP6 in preference. Especially if you decide to add the new 24V motor, external power supply and a new Rega Fono3, plus a new cartridge on top! Its worth noting that even older Rega Planar3 decks hold their value and would generate a couple of hundred pounds towards an upgrade. A used RP6 (mint & boxed) sell for around £600, comes with the upgraded motor, power supply, arm, platter - then add a used Fono MM2 for about £130. A potent mid range front end.

Alternatively, at more expense, the new (pref ex demo) Planar6 comes with a brand new plinth material, the bang up to date motor, the latest TTPSU, the newly launched Ania cartridge and then of course add a Fono3 MC, which was designed around the Ania to match it perfectly. I recently heard this Planar 6 set up against the RP8 and thought the Planar 6 was almost the RP8’s equal. That new 6 is very very good. The RP10 was in another league altogether though.

It is also worth knowing that Rega are launching new decks this Autumn, witnessed by the number of bargain RP8 and RP10 ex demo dealer specials that are around - this would be a big upgrade. Or perhaps wait and see what magic Rega have planned with the new Planar (?) 8 and 10 later in the year while you source a rack and perhaps service the NAC & NAP in the meantime.

Lots to think about, but a rack has to be first move. 

Thanks again for all your advice.

Vinyl is not intrinsically important to me - it's just that I have a few hundred records that I enjoy listening to and don't want to buy again.

I can see that after I get the current system cleaned up and working it's best, I'll have to decide how to invest between a flatcap and/or a streaming source (which I have not even begun researching yet).

In the longer term I plan to upgrade the entire system.

I'll let you know how it goes.

All the best

Jim

If vinyl is not so important to you, I would consider adding a streamer and selling the turntable. You will almost certainly find that all the albums you have are then available from a web streaming service such as Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify etc. Then you free up valuable space on your overcrowded rack.

I've bought a Quadraspire EVO 4-shelf rack second hand (not yet delivered), I'm having the amps serviced in a fortnight, and I've put the speakers on their plinths.

Now I'm trying to figure out whether to put the spikes on something like a marble block on top of the thick carpet and underlay, or get longer spikes and put them through the carpet and underlay onto the concrete floor? (The original spikes would never make it.)

I'm also looking into getting a second hand FlatCap - could this be a FlatCap XS or must it be a FlatCap2x?

I've (more or less) convinced myself to sell my TT and my non-rare vinyl and get a streamer. When the new entry level streamer is released, will there be an influx of good second hand streamers onto the market?

If I do get a streamer, should I get one that could also be powered by the same PSU?

And should I get the PSU serviced too if it has not been serviced?

I’m pleased you’ve ordered the Quadraspire, which is a really good rack. I use an SVT on a thick carpet with thick underlay and it reaches the concrete fine. The trick is to make little slits in the carpet with a sharp Stanley knife. It sounds brutal but damages the carpet far less than trying to shove spikes through. It also allows a really good connection with the floor. 

As to the other questions:

Any Flatcap will do

The current entry streamer is the ND5xs and there are already lots available. Prices are likely to fall when the xs2 appears

Streamers cannot be powered by Flatcaps or Hicaps; they need an XP5 or XPS

The PSU will need servicing if it’s not been done in the past 10 years

One thought for you: rather than the cost of a Flatcap and a streamer, maybe £1,600, you could consider a used 272 for about £2,200. Sell the 112 for £250 and the difference is £350. One box instead of 3, and far better sound quality. 

Congratulations on the purchase of the new rack. This and the pending service should help make the most of the system as it stands. 

Anything older than a Flatcap 2 / XS and you’d prob need to have it serviced - just buy the latest mint & boxed version you can find. 

In terms of speaker stand spikes, the cheapest option would be to explore the longer spikes first and see how they work. As HH says for fitting the main Quad rack, also for the speaker stand spikes, slit the carpet / underlay, but leave enough spike thread exposed to lift the speaker / stand just clear of the carpet. There are bods on the forum experimenting with costly dedicated speaker / stand isolation (Isoacoustics Gaia spring to mind) but I’ve not explored anything like that to date. I’m using Atacama Gel Pads between speaker and stand top plate. They helped tighten everything up, especially the lower frequencies. Although they are not toddler proof like blu tak is.

As someone who is just getting back into vinyl after a hiatus - and thoroughly enjoying catching up with old records, I’d really exercise caution at selling your collection and deck. During my last house move I (regretfully) made the decision to get rid of some 500 plus albums - tread carefully!

If you monitor the dealers (and auction site if brave), there are quite a few ND5 XS, NDX, NAC-N 272 and the often overlooked NAC-N 172  for sale at approximately two thirds new price. The ND5 XS or 172 could be an interesting choice as they'd be a relatively modest way to initially explore streaming and would be balanced in terms of the rest of you system. Then, if streaming is for you, consider upgrading later to the new Naim streaming platform in a year to two. That way you haven't lost too much outlay on the higher end 272 or NDX units.

I'd keep the record player. New cartridge and proper support for it.

Great news about rack.

Good advice from HH and YZ about spiking through carpet to concrete below.

Unless you really have to sell your TT to fund the streamer I’d hold onto to it. All records are rare to their owners. 

Thanks for more ideas, which point out new ways forward (and avoiding tricky future ways back).

If this comment string remains open, I'll update you on how this pans out.

HH - I take it you're suggesting that the 150x and CD5i would work well in the medium or even long term with a 272 (i.e. until I get funds for further upgrades, which may be a few years down the road). This is really tempting. This implies that the 272 would not, say, overly highlight the shortcomings of the CD5i or the relative lack of power in the 150x. Please let me know if I've misunderstood anything here.

cheers

Jim