What to get next?

The 112/150/cd5i system is perfect for what it is.  Do not do any more incremental upgrades on this (flatcaps, etc.)   The next round of upgrades should entirely replace all these items so consider your budget and choose accordingly.  I use a Supernait and a Hugo (fed by dvd); this system is relatively cheap 2nd hand and plays great music.  A 202/200 is a good bargain used as well.  Chord DACs go well with Naim and are relatively cheaper than Naim source options.  I would keep the 112/150/cd5i in a 2nd system regardless as it has poor resale value.  But on the right song it gives a crusher delivery that you can't get anywhere else. 

Marble slabs under speakers are a lousy solution in my experience.  It won't cost much for you to try it though.  I found it cleaned up the sound, but caused ringing at higher frequencies and robbed the music of all soul and expression.  A proper footer solution could be purchased from IsoAcoustics - they have a footer and carpet base combo that I wager would sort things out nicely.  It would cost around $400 USD.      

JimDog posted:

Thanks for more ideas, which point out new ways forward (and avoiding tricky future ways back).

If this comment string remains open, I'll update you on how this pans out.

HH - I take it you're suggesting that the 150x and CD5i would work well in the medium or even long term with a 272 (i.e. until I get funds for further upgrades, which may be a few years down the road). This is really tempting. This implies that the 272 would not, say, overly highlight the shortcomings of the CD5i or the relative lack of power in the 150x. Please let me know if I've misunderstood anything here.

cheers

Jim

Jim, the 272 would be fine with the 150, which is a really nice amplifier and if it drives your speakers well then that’s good. As for the CD5i I would suggest that if you were moving to a streamer you would rip the CDs to a Nas and sell the CD player or keep it for occasional use. Streaming a CD rip to a 272 will sound far better than playing them on a CD5i. I hope that makes sense. Selling the CD5i and 150 could as an alternative fund a used 200 non-DR. 

Hi Hastings - a 202/200/streamer looks like it will cost £3k SH (or more), whereas the 272 maybe around £2200 SH? I can't really spend £3k plus interconnects etc at the moment, but I can just about imagine buying a 272 (with the putative agreement of The-Other-with-whom-I-share-resources). Or have I got my sums wrong?

Thanks - I will dig into the threads on IsoAcoustics.

Is the sound from the TV routed through your speakers? If so, see if there is a convenient way to remove the speakers from inside the TV. Having other speakers in the room, even headphones, muffles the sound substantially.

JimDog posted:

Hi Hastings - a 202/200/streamer looks like it will cost £3k SH (or more), whereas the 272 maybe around £2200 SH? I can't really spend £3k plus interconnects etc at the moment, but I can just about imagine buying a 272 (with the putative agreement of The-Other-with-whom-I-share-resources). Or have I got my sums wrong?

Thanks - I will dig into the threads on IsoAcoustics.

You are about right with your sums but of course selling your existing kit will help. I'm slightly dubious as to wether a bare 272/150 would work a friend of mine had a bare 272/200 and until he spent over £2,000 on on an XPSDR it sounded rather dull.

If I were you I would look at a seperste streamer from Naim because there are many out there that represent much, much better value for money, I have seen ND5XS's go for under £1,000 recently and that will allow you to stretch to a 202/200 which with a Napsc is a fine sounding amp which averages about £1,500 on the used market and will take another step in SQ if at some point in the future you can add even an Olive Hicap about £300.

ND5XS/202/Napsc/200 will cost you about the same as a 272 on the used market and will arguably sound better than a 272/150 but it is also much more upgradeable when and if you want to add a Hicap and the Nd5xs unlike the 272 can be connected to a better dac if you should ever be in a position whereas the 272 is a bit of a cut de sac.

ps 

Keep that Rega deck it will sound great connected to a 202/200.

Bob the Builder posted:

JimDog posted:

Hi Hastings - a 202/200/streamer looks like it will cost £3k SH (or more), whereas the 272 maybe around £2200 SH? I can't really spend £3k plus interconnects etc at the moment, but I can just about imagine buying a 272 (with the putative agreement of The-Other-with-whom-I-share-resources). Or have I got my sums wrong?

Thanks - I will dig into the threads on IsoAcoustics.

You are about right with your sums but of course selling your existing kit will help. I'm slightly dubious as to wether a bare 272/150 would work a friend of mine had a bare 272/200 and until he spent over £2,000 on on an XPSDR it sounded rather dull.

If I were you I would look at a seperste streamer from Naim because there are many out there that represent much, much better value for money, I have seen ND5XS's go for under £1,000 recently and that will allow you to stretch to a 202/200 which with a Napsc is a fine sounding amp which averages about £1,500 on the used market and will take another step in SQ if at some point in the future you can add even an Olive Hicap about £300.

ND5XS/202/Napsc/200 will cost you about the same as a 272 on the used market and will arguably sound better than a 272/150 but it is also much more upgradeable when and if you want to add a Hicap and the Nd5xs unlike the 272 can be connected to a better dac if you should ever be in a position whereas the 272 is a bit of a cut de sac.

ps 

Keep that Rega deck it will sound great connected to a 202/200.

I agree with most of this, although personally, I would still ditch the turntable!

More importantly, though, I think the OP needs to find a dealer he can trust, and spend plenty of time listening. Opinions here can become rather polarised, especially when it comes to those 272 vs separates debates, and the ensuing discussion is not always helpful. 

HH - when you say that I could buy a 200 non-DR to go with a 272, why non DR? In that set up, without an external PSU, does the 200 power the 272? So wouldn't a DR version power it better? I understand that the non DR 200 would be a bit cheaper, but if I'm going to live with 200/272 for years before adding a power supply, isn't that worth getting?

Also, this may be a very silly Q, but I think I saw on a different comment thread that someone fed a 272 output into another pre-amp. Is that possible/advisable? If so, what would that achieve? Why not just use the preamp circuitry in the 272? (Or maybe I just misunderstood that post in that other thread!)

The 200 doesn't provide power to the 272 so having a non DR 200 would be fine and make no difference in this application to a 200DR hence the recommendation by HH. The DR designation in the case of the 200 only applies to a small DR voltage regulator module in the amplifier case which is used to provide a 24v feed to a pre-amp. The 272 doesn't use this 24v feed. 

JR - the sound from the TV is routed through my Naim system. The screen is a new Samsung QLED with downward facing speakers built into it. I would not try to dismantle the screen to remove the speakers as I'm not an electrician, and I'd hesitate to ask an electrician to do it in case it went wrong or screwed up some circuitry or software in the screen. But how come other speakers make such as difference? Is it because they produce an electromagnetic field that interferes with the operation of the Naim speakers? Might there be a way to just switch the Samsung speakers off, but leave them in place?

JimDog posted:

JR - the sound from the TV is routed through my Naim system. The screen is a new Samsung QLED with downward facing speakers built into it. I would not try to dismantle the screen to remove the speakers as I'm not an electrician, and I'd hesitate to ask an electrician to do it in case it went wrong or screwed up some circuitry or software in the screen. But how come other speakers make such as difference? Is it because they produce an electromagnetic field that interferes with the operation of the Naim speakers? Might there be a way to just switch the Samsung speakers off, but leave them in place?

I'd leave it as is. Removing other speakers from the room including phones and even digital watches with alarm beepers in them was a fad in the mid 80's via Linn - an obsessive version of having a single pair of speakers in a room that some took to the extreme...

To be honest there are a lot more things in the average living room that will happily 'sing' along with the music so worrying about speakers in a TV is really a non issue.

Listening to Gloria Coates 'Holographic Universe' (1975) with the lights off...the passage Dark Energy, with a glass of Sauvignon Blanc. Quite a tonic after the strain of trying to decide whether to go separates or integrated...

It sounds as if you already get real pleasure from your system as is.

Update - I bought a 272 yesterday. It had an immediate and revoutionary impact on my aging system, which is now raised up to an entirely different level. I would even dare to say that to my untutored ears the system actually sounds like what I have always imagined HiFi to be like. [Note: despite owning and using audio separates systems continuously since 1980 (including  graphic equalizer!), I have never owned what I consider a real HiFi system - and surprisingly I have never heard a proper HiFi system, having never had a demo at a dealer's and having no friends who value high quality audio systems.] So it's quite possible that I'm really still in the foothills of HiFi - but to me the sound of the rejuventated system is sweet and crisp. It was a joy to hear my old Arivas finally get the signals they have been longing for for so long. All these years I did not know what they could do. I listened to 'Round midnight, Child in Time, And the Gods Made Love, Through Metamorphic Rocks, Old Man, One World, etc on CD. It was a vast improvement on the system, but compared to using the 272 as a source my CD and TT were clearly inferior.

I even managed to do a comparison of a 2010 NAP200 non-DR vs my old 2004 NAP150x (both unserviced). Interestingly, there was not a dramatic difference between the 2 amps. I was careful to try not to let my expectations, or the name '200', or the beefier depth of the amp case sway my evaluation of the sound. The 200 was relatively gentle, making less effort for the same volume. The 150x was a more punchy , vibrant sound. But the difference was marginal.

Now I'm going to slow down now and enjoy it.  I'm having the 150x serviced by Darran this w/e, then sign up to Tidal and explore...

Things to do:

• keep records
• isolate/balance/fiddle with how the Arivas are mounted - they wobble on the 3 metal knobs on the plinths - maybe get long spikes (brass?) to penetrate the 30mm of carpet and underlay? But then what happens if the spikes do not sit nicely on the concrete?
• get NAS (rip CDs and maybe sell them)
• get high speed broadband?
• sell 112x - and maybe the CD5i
• get 2 x 3.5m NACA5 (to replace 2 x 8m 14-year old Chord Rumour 2)?
• get phono stage, cart, belt for Rega (and a 72 for Debs)
• get 250DR, PSU for 272, Allaes, Unity Core, LP12, 2 x Technics 1200, Nakamichi to listen to those old punk band tapes in that plastic bag...

Anyway, sorry about this long post.

Thanks to everyone for your expertise and help (esp. the horny-handed, heavy-hitting halibut hunter).

As regards the issue in the thread above and elsewhere regarding whether the 272 is a sell out - yes! it is. I would ideally like to get separates, and hope to eventually (when I'm 96 and rich and totally deaf). (I'm still annoyed that Dylan went electric.) But within the reality of my current budget this was a great leap forward!

First congratulations and well done for taking the plunge the next thing I would do is change speakers if you buy a modern up to date speaker from PMC, NEAT, Dynaudio, Kudos or something similar you will experience another wow moment equal to the one you had with the 272.

Second is buy either an XPSDR for the 272 or a 250 power amp.

And third dont burn those CD's and mention selling them again on this forum because you'll get told off.

Had the 150x serviced on Saturday. Darran told me that it would probably be 'up and down' for a week.

The system sounded more meaty overall as soon as I plugged it in that night.

But the TT sounded tinny and weak, even though I'd replaced the Cart and Belt.

Over the week the power amp has settled down and now sounds stable and excellent - like new.

This morning I put Led Zep on the TT and it sounded superb - by far the best I've ever heard that TT.

So I'm going to clean up my best records and bring them back in from the garage.

I think my old Pro-Ject phono stage originally cost about £90 - I looked back and discovered that it and the TT are more than 15 years old.

But I think I should get a Rega Fono stage now, as Bob recommends.

Also I was advised to buy a Rega Bias 2, but I'm thinking I should have bought an Elys 2 instead - would I hear the difference?

thanks

Jim

If you’re planning to get a Core you may not need the NAS and it makes ripping easy. The CDs are your licence to have the digital copies once you’ve done the ripping, if things like copyright are of any concern to you, they’re also a final backup.

I'd love to get a core, but may have to make do with a NAS if that can do the same things at a much lower cost (but also lower convenience)...?

yeti42 posted:

....The CDs are your licence to have the digital copies once you’ve done the ripping....

Technically, in the UK, they aren’t! It is illegal to copy a CD for any purpose. Best not to worry about it too much, though. 

JimDog posted:

Had the 150x serviced on Saturday. Darran told me that it would probably be 'up and down' for a week.

The system sounded more meaty overall as soon as I plugged it in that night.

But the TT sounded tinny and weak, even though I'd replaced the Cart and Belt.

Over the week the power amp has settled down and now sounds stable and excellent - like new.

This morning I put Led Zep on the TT and it sounded superb - by far the best I've ever heard that TT.

So I'm going to clean up my best records and bring them back in from the garage.

I think my old Pro-Ject phono stage originally cost about £90 - I looked back and discovered that it and the TT are more than 15 years old.

But I think I should get a Rega Fono stage now, as Bob recommends.

Also I was advised to buy a Rega Bias 2, but I'm thinking I should have bought an Elys 2 instead - would I hear the difference?

thanks

Jim

A friend of mine has recently don't exactly that i.e. replacing an old Project phono amp with a Rega Fono.  I was very impressed with the uplift in performance I heard from his LP12 and all for a very reasonable cost.

Rega mm fono makes a lot of sense with a Rega mm cart ime.

If that Planar 3 really is sitting on your CD5i, as per your first post, please get it onto an Ikea Lack or Rega wallshelf, or similar.

Well right now it is still sitting there. But I Bought a SH Quadraspire eco four shelf rack a couple of weeks ago. the seller delivered it to my sister in laws house in East Sheen where it will probably stay til Xmas. So hopefully an uplift in separation will come then. For the next three months I will either have to put up with it as is or venture down to London. But will the tt be ok on top of the rack, or will it need some kind of feet to stand on?

From what I see here of other people's Rega record players on top of Fraim, Isoblue etc., it will be fine plonked straight on top.

JimDog posted:

I plugged in the new Rega Fono MM Mark 3 this morning.

it hummed when I switched it on

Try to get it as far away from the stylus, the motor in the Rega and any transformers in your Naims as the leads will allow.

Yes - the hum was lower last night when I got home.

I then moved the TT away from the other kit and the hum disappeared entirely - simples!