Upgrade 2005-ish Nap250 with DR and Recap? Or trade in and buy new?

282 and core aand nd5 along with your dac  would make a difference NOW

not 250dr.

Don’t know the exact prices, but with a recap and DR upgrade, I think your 250 is basically new - except the casing and transformer ...

Klout10 posted:

Don’t know the exact prices, but with a recap and DR upgrade, I think your 250 is basically new - except the casing and transformer ...

It's about $1700 + $250.  (plus shipping and packaging. )

I'm going to guestimate it's about $4000-$4500 to upgrade to new one.  I'm thinking there is no point to this.  

Antonio1 posted:

282 and core aand nd5 along with your dac  would make a difference NOW

not 250dr.

Good point.  This is more of a bigger benefit now, just more dollars spent.  I should find out what 202 to 282 trade in would cost.  

As I'm already thinking, from a cost perspective, ND5 should be the next spend.  Since It will add functionality that I don't have, vs upgrading what I do have.  Then as I want to spend, slowly make the upgrades that are necessary.   Thanks!

It’s worth making a point of auditioning the 250DR vs your 250. Plenty of people say it’s a complete no-brainer, but it does change the sound and there have been those who weren’t keen on the change.

But if you’re changing the speakers, that could a bigger change than anything else, and should really be done in isolation from any other changes. Get to really know the new speakers and only then revisit everything else some months down the line would be my advice.

It’s a tricky one. A 2005 250.2 is overdue a service. The 250 is generally agreed to be an unhappy marriage with the 202, hence why a 282 is a good idea, but you still really need that recap. And then there’s the requirement for a streamer. The ND5XS2 with nDac may be really good. A Core is unnecessary as a good Nas will do the same for under £500, so long as you are happy ripping your CDs with a computer, which presumably you are. So a good option is a 282 and DR the 250. One other option - sell the 202, Hicap and nDac, DR the 250 and get a 272. It may or may not be as good as an ND5XS2, 282, Hicap and nDac but it’s one hell of a lot simpler. 

If money is tight a NAS will do the job of a Core if you have a pc of some kind to use for ripping. 

Edit: crossed post with HH - agree with every word.

Thanks everybody.  Some great advice and help.  

1. Going to demo the ND5XS2 with and without DAC.  (most likely with, since I'll be looking into a NAS... based off comments)

2. most likely DR and Recap my amp.  That's what I've been using at the dealer to demo speakers.

3. Demo 282 vs 202 through my setup

I'm concerned about the 272, because it's an all in one and would require more often upgrades.  Having separates means only upgrade what's needed.  (assuming I'm happy with current setup) 

Is the Core vs NAS just not that special?  I'm not super picky over detail.  "Music" is what satisfies me.  Not "Over Accuracy"

Thanks all for the answers!

Opinion on a NAS versus the Core varies. I streamed from a Mac and switched to a Core and found the sound quality a little better, but for me the big difference is in simplicity, reliability and a dedicated stand along audio system. Obviously budget and priorities come into play to.

As I read what Naim is saying about the nnd5 sx 2 you cannot use it with an external dac, but I may be wrong here?

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nd5-xs-2

Claus

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

As I read what Naim is saying about the nnd5 sx 2 you cannot use it with an external dac, but I may be wrong here?

 

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nd5-xs-2

Claus

It has a BNC digital out, what makes you think it cannot connect to a DAC?

.sjb

+1 for the 282 instead of tweaking the 250. Or you can save bigly by going for an 82. 

I can't comment on the other alternatives, as I don't have first-hand experience, but source-first rules.

JRHardee posted:

+1 for the 282 instead of tweaking the 250. Or you can save bigly by going for an 82. 

I can't comment on the other alternatives, as I don't have first-hand experience, but source-first rules.

+1 for bigly 

As for and 82. If I went olive, I'd have to replace everything. Non matching components....

.....thats just chaos!!!

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

As I read what Naim is saying about the nnd5 sx 2 you cannot use it with an external dac, but I may be wrong here?

 

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nd5-xs-2

Claus

You can't use it with an external power supply, but you can use it as a transport into an external DAC from its SPDIF output.

Core vs. nas -- when wanting to use the Core as a upnp server, save the money and buy a nas and rip your cd's on a computer.

ND5XS2 would be an interesting 'front end' for the Naim Dac. It'll let you use Roon and a host of other services. 

Cannot see the point in connecting a brand spanking new ND5XS into an old Ndac.

ND5XS2/282/HC/250 

Sell the Ndac and Linn Speakers just service the 250-2 if you feel you really must

And upgrade those speakers 

The DR upgrade does not include a recap. The main caps are not on the boards replaced by the DR upgrade. So you will need pay for both a DR upgrade and a recap to bring it up to current spec.

Bob the Builder posted:

Cannot see the point in connecting a brand spanking new ND5XS into an old Ndac.

ND5XS2/282/HC/250 

Sell the Ndac and Linn Speakers just service the 250-2 if you feel you really must

And upgrade those speakers 

From all I've read, ndac is a better dac with a better chip. 

New speakers coming.

So a dac that has been out five years or more has a better chip than a brand new product?

feeling_zen posted:

The DR upgrade does not include a recap. The main caps are not on the boards replaced by the DR upgrade. So you will need pay for both a DR upgrade and a recap to bring it up to current spec.

But you get a good price on the  recap if it is done at the same time as you DR the 250.

Bob the Builder posted:

So a dac that has been out five years or more has a better chip than a brand new product?

Don’t tell all those people who’ve just wasted £20k on a new ND555 that they could have got the same discontinued DAC in a used product for £1500. ????

Bob the Builder posted:

So a dac that has been out five years or more has a better chip than a brand new product?

If you don’t know the answer to that question, surely you might think twice before telling other people what to do on the basis of your assumption?

Dave***t posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

So a dac that has been out five years or more has a better chip than a brand new product?

If you don’t know the answer to that question, surely you might think twice before telling other people what to do on the basis of your assumption?

I actually tried an Ndac on an ND5XS and for the difference it made which was extremely minimal at best I decided to spend £675 on a used 2Qute which made a real difference instead of the £1,250 the dealer wanted for the Ndac although to be fair he did explain that I really needed a £6,000 555DR to make the Ndac shine.

So call me optimistic but I presumed that the ND5XS 2 after a couple of years of development and  Naim's forensic SQ tests released under much fanfare may have improved on the old streamer bit and sound good under it's own steam without the aid of five year old tech.

When I answer these threads it is always, always with an eye on cost that I offer my advice so rather than tell someone to spend thousands and thousands I'd rather offer money saving advice.

When I got my ND5XS I tried it "bare" with no power supply for curioisity reasons and it was really quite good in my 82/Hicap/250 system.  If I didn't already have a nDAC/XPS then I'd have been more than happy 

My XPS is Olive so I couldn't do the ND5XS comparison - which may have been a good thing

@Bob: I'm with you on cost

Spending serious money on a streamer front end for a bare Naim Dac sure sounds like folly.  

While I have no idea how an ND5XS2 will sound vs. said bare Naim Dac, I'd definitely want to listen to what else I could do with the same amount of money.  $3500 for a 'front end' for the bare Naim Dac, I posit, won't sound like $3500.

Dave***,

I think you are unfair to Bob the builder - he is not informing, he is asking the question, and the question is in the context of the previous posts.

Naim's introduction of streaming platforms muddies the water somewhat in that they integrate both the streaming technology with the DAC and therefore it is the entire package that is heard so very difficult to disengage the DAC-only performance.

Wouldn't it be nice if Naim extracted out the DAC technology and offered it as a stand-alone replacement for the NDAC?

Also it is not just about the chips, irrespective of their age or model, it is about the software that implements the DAC operations and the interconnection between digital inputs and the DAC.

… far too complicated to arrive at any definitive technical conclusions except what is heard, and this is subjective at best.

All we can do is demo and select on what is heard; I visited my dealer last week to have a chat about what's next for me and he put the ND555 on - I didn't listen and kept speaking so we weren't hearing it properly … too many £ and I don't want temptation!

Allan