Naim CDX2 with SPENDOR D7s - hard sounding upper mid strings & brass.

How does solo piano sound?

Are the speakers brand new? They may need a fair bit of breaking in before they sound at their best.

ChrisSU posted:

Are the speakers brand new? They may need a fair bit of breaking in before they sound at their best.

Good point, mine took ages to break in they should not sound as you are describing them did you have a home demo first ?

Speakers, other system components, wires, especially Superlumina ones all take a while to settle, months in the case of SL purportedly.

The rack the system sits on, box order and cable dressing, ever the plug order if using a block all have an effect. There’s not even agreement on what’s optimum for the latter and box order on the rack seems to depend on which model. A CDX2 above a 282 on Fraim sounded better than the reverse but a 552 above the CDX2 was preferable. 

I asked about the piano sound as a ringing of the upper notes is a symptom I had with my CDX2, cured by improved cable dressing (so the power cable didn’t touch the rack) and a move off a steel and MDF rack onto Fraim Lite.

I find piano and string on my D7s to be a rather strong point so I think something is amiss somewhere?

To my D7s it took 3 months to fully break in.

Many thanks for all those comments - I'll fill in a bit more information here.

1)   Piano solo -    I think I can detect something of that hard upper middle, but piano notes are rarely sustained in a prolonged 'note'  as are  strings or brass... Piano music is relieved by variety of notes and vibrations more so.     I do like the  edge that is given to piano in this case . adds a kind of realism.

2)  Speakers are 3yrs old nearly and second hand, therefore have been run in by others.   Nevertheless they did change after a day or so  and perhaps still have to settle in to my own set up.  There was a distinct warming up after a couple of days ( I've only had them  4 days)

3)  re speakers - No audition (!!)   But their reputation and recommendation by my local HiFi shop led me to jump at the chance to buy them from Ebay at half the usual cost. A rare opportunity. I just dived in.

4) The system is stacked on Atacama  5 shelves arrangement.  I have so many components that I have to double up because I don't have the space to separate in other directions.   Bottom shelf has  the 250,  directly on top of that with silicone pads is Supercap.   Next shelf up is NAC 282 with BlueRay player on pads on top of that.  Next up is the  CDX2 with DAC on pads on top of that.  

I suspect I will hear gasps of astonishment from you experts !!

Top shelf I have an ISOTEC mains conditioner with  3 Naim powerlines to the amp/CDX2/supercap.    the DAC is fed by a Russ Andrews power cord.

5)  As I mentioned, my anxiety is primarily the CD sound.  

the DAC sits directly on top of the CDX2 with pad separation  (?? wrong , is that??)   

Intereconnects to the DAC are either Audioquest diamond or Wel if I decide to buy that.

DAC interconnect to 282 preamp is Naim Superlumina.

Supercap to NAP 250 has superlumina interconnect.

A lot to wade through here any more insights gratefully received.  if it means changing my frame I'll have to save up for that!

Try removing the mains conditioner

thanks -  I guess there are so many things like that to try.  Bearing in mind my problem is new, whereas I've had the Isotek for a few years now.  

yeti42 posted:

I asked about the piano sound as a ringing of the upper notes is a symptom I had with my CDX2, cured by improved cable dressing (so the power cable didn’t touch the rack) and a move off a steel and MDF rack onto Fraim Lite.

This comment must not be forgotten.

The back of my rack is a bit of a forest of cables.   I'll look for a cable tidy of some sort and stop them touching the frame.

I have an Atacama double width stand - most likely not as good as two single units but takes up less space; and just fits in the gap required.  This makes it dead easy to do a Brains/Brawn layout with easy(ish) access to cables.  I just try to keep cables loose and dangling as best as possible and avoid touching walls where you can.  

It seems a bit potty to spend £2,000 on a Super Lumina wire when the equipment is piled up in a heap on an Atacama. With so many issues and speakers bought unheard because they were a bargain it’s impossible to identify the source of the perceived problem.

I’d get it all set up properly after losing the Isotek and see where you are then. The SL cables need to hang free so that they don’t touch anything - stand, wall, floor or other wires. Even touching them on the carpet makes an audible difference. A cable tidy is certainly not the answer here. 

I've been fortunate in buying nearly all my stuff at ex dem prices, just so you know, but I take on board the careful cable arrangements.    Not sure how I can get the speaker cables to the speakers without some sort of support though. how do you do that?

Sorry, I was only referring to the interconnect and din to XLR. Supporting speaker cables is taking things too far. 

I would 100% sort the setup out MIKESPOOR you have such a beautifully balanced system and to give it the best chance each component needs it's own shelf unless it's an AV double width rack then they could go side by side two to a shelf.

I remember the first time I got a proper rack it was only a cheap metal and glass affair and my system was only NAD but the difference was big and it was the first time I thought there might be something to all of this 'audiophile' stuff.

Try this 

Bottom shelf Nap 250

Shelf 2  Supercap

Shelf 3  Ndac

Shelf 4   282

Top shelf CDX

If you want to keep the Isotek stick it behind the rack out of sight though personally I would give it a try without it,  if you need a decent 3 or 4 way extension then a Wireword Matrix 2 would be good with those power lines and only cost about a £120.  Use one PL to connect the Matrix to the wall and then one each on the Supercap and  the Ndac if you dont have a powerline for each component then use the stock cable. Nothing wrong with the Russ Andrews I have one of his Yellow ones somewhere it's just that Naim respond better to their own cables.

I'm sure you could find a place for the Blueray somewhere else because it's the Naim stuff that is more important it really, really responds well to being seperated properly.

Just give it a try it won't cost anything only time but I guarantee you you will hear a difference.

Wow - Bob the Builder, very helpful and specific advice which I appreciate a great deal.   I've just had a long conversation with my local HiFi shop who covered a variety of options too, so all this is telling me that , having got a system which for me is about as far as I can go financially, there are many ways of refining the arrangements to get the best out of it.  All the advice from the forum is helpful and now is the time for tweaking.   

I'll also look out for the Matrix2 extension because I will need it to try out some options.

thanks

Also, if you haven’t already done so, get a dedicated supply fitted. 

Finkfan -    ta,      but I'm intending to move at some point before long, so I won't invest in the house electrics here & now thanks.

Finkfan posted:

Also, if you haven’t already done so, get a dedicated supply fitted. 

That shouldn’t cause this sort of complaint, benficial as it can be. It’s typical of a setup problem and there appears to be plenty of scope there. I’d start with Bob’s  layout but maybe run the CDX2 direct and use bog standartd Naim power cords and interconnects that come with the boxes. Optimise on those before adding in the frills such as DAC, magic wires and power conditioners but leave enough time for things to settle. My suspicion is the Atacama will have to go but that’s pure prejudice based on hearsay.

There are many variables in your setup to consider, however, break in may yet be a factor, despite the D7s age.  I had my Spendors for years without realizing they hadn't reached their pinnacle performance.  They had always been uncomfortable at louder volumes with a Naim source so I didn't push them too hard.  When I acquired a Chord Hugo (years later) I could play louder (the Hugo has lower gain than Naim sources and is smoother as well) and finally (and unexpectedly) realized the speaker's full potential.  The tweeter was transformed; the music finally had spatial cues and "air".    

My CDX2 did sound a bit harsh at the top before I got the XPS. You use an nDac which I haven't tried, so you shouldn't have that problem - but it might be interesting to hear what others have too say about the CDX2/nDAC.

I must add that I heard the D7s a couple of years back - they had an excellent top end, but I ended up getting the 20.23 for cost reasons...

Mike, If there's a standard Naim wire to connect your CDX2.2 to your Naim Dac I would try that before anything.

C.

Edit: There is. It's called a DC1, apparently. Maybe your dealer can lend you one.....

Two to three years ago traversing New York's SoHo,  I came upon a non-Naim dealer who was  demonstrating D7.  Lots of audio sightseers were impressed with the dramatics, but I found them strident and irritating. At one point retailer commented to crowd how lifelike D7's were and I agree if you wanted your home to sound like cafe you'd rather not visit. The gang at Spendor is so attuned that their renaissance "Classic" has only one US retailer. Obviously everyone has different musical longings, but stridency will inevitably be abandoned when opportunities for insight are inhibited.  Naim's attraction is the possibility of musical intimacy at all its system levels.             

cnewyork posted:

Two to three years ago traversing New York's SoHo,  I came upon a non-Naim dealer who was  demonstrating D7.  Lots of audio sightseers were impressed with the dramatics, but I found them strident and irritating. At one point retailer commented to crowd how lifelike D7's were and I agree if you wanted your home to sound like cafe you'd rather not visit. The gang at Spendor is so attuned that their renaissance "Classic" has only one US retailer. Obviously everyone has different musical longings, but stridency will inevitably be abandoned when opportunities for insight are inhibited.  Naim's attraction is the possibility of musical intimacy at all its system levels.             

This may have been due to the electronics...