What direction would you take now if you had no existing music collection

I moved to all 'no physical media' music in 2011 and if I had to start all over today I'd not do it any differently.  Zero patience for physical media.  I know that vinyl has its own sound, and its an "experience" to most more than simply picking tracks or albums from an iDevice, but I have so much STUFF as it is that boxes/shelves of albums just don't appeal.  I have a server that's all cd quality or better (hi res albums).

Bart posted:

I moved to all 'no physical media' music in 2011 and if I had to start all over today I'd not do it any differently.  Zero patience for physical media.  I know that vinyl has its own sound, and its an "experience" to most more than simply picking tracks or albums from an iDevice, but I have so much STUFF as it is that boxes/shelves of albums just don't appeal.  I have a server that's all cd quality or better (hi res albums).

Thanks Bart. But if you were starting from scratch would you be happy to stream, preferably Hi Res or would you still want to own your content?

Thanks again

Popeye posted:

Bart posted:

I moved to all 'no physical media' music in 2011 and if I had to start all over today I'd not do it any differently.  Zero patience for physical media.  I know that vinyl has its own sound, and its an "experience" to most more than simply picking tracks or albums from an iDevice, but I have so much STUFF as it is that boxes/shelves of albums just don't appeal.  I have a server that's all cd quality or better (hi res albums).

Thanks Bart. But if you were starting from scratch would you be happy to stream, preferably Hi Res or would you still want to own your content?

Thanks again

I'd want my own content.  First, I've not found streaming from an online service to sound as good as my redbook and hi res content at home.  Second, I enjoy sometimes listening to different versions of the same cd (such as the MSFL version and newer remasters) and the online services don't always offer that choice.

OTOH, it would be MUCH less expensive to simply pay $10-20 per month than re-purchase so many albums!!

Hello Popeye

I was much in your position about 3 months ago, except I am 74 years young.  Been out of Audio for 34 years, and had the desire to get back.  Back in the day, it was ML6, Goldmund TT and straight line Tracking Arm, Koetsu Rosewood, and Vinyl all the way.  No collection survived from that time.  This time around, I opted for CD via a Naim CD5XS.  Was very happy with it, but discovered streaming and Hi Res downloads.  Traded the CD5XS, Nat05 Tuner, HiCap and FlatCap for NDX, and love it.  Soon to be an NDX2.  I have used the DAC V1 as a volume control/preamp.  Have no Preamp.  Am in the market for a real nice DAC with volume control that can go directly into the Amp.  Pulsed Naim customer support to see if anything Naim was in the pipeline or rumored, but Naim does not hint, so I may have to go "Out of Family" for my new DAC.  Looks like several forum members have done the same.

Suggest you borrow a streamer and see if its for you.  I would have saved some money if I had a better idea of what I was going to do.  Fortunately, the Naim gear is quite good on trade-in and changing or upgrading is not too painful.  As a result of HQ streaming and downloads, I have spent about 3x my original budget but am getting sound so far beyond my original expectations.  The real proof of the pudding is that my wife enjoys sitting listening to the music for an hour each day.  The other day she said "You should have the best equipment".  Not sure if she means an ND555/2 PSU's? 

Bailyhill

I would have a physical copy of some sort. It would be ripped to WAV and streamed over my home network. The original would be stored. I still buy CDs but I don't play them. Rip and stream. Even when vinyl was the only high street audiophile option, I disliked the ritual, fragility and inconsistency of acquiring, storing, playing and caring for it.

Are you settled? It’s much easier to move with a streaming or even server based system. I’m old enough to have been lugging records around from when I first started, they’ve mostly survived even the student and shared house years, each move has required more effort but that goes for everything else I’ve owned too. 

Pound for pound I’ll still take vinyl for music and sound quality but it takes more effort to achieve and the choice isn’t as great. I tried ignoring CDs when they arrived (having heard the early players) but didn’t quite make it to the year 2000 before succumbing.

Even now with Tidal I would opt for my own collection on the Melco. Assuming I would still have the finances I would opt for as much as possible high res versions of the music I like, awaiting the Christmas actions of the different download platform, especially Qobuz. For the rest I would try to get again collection of music through box sets. They are very often a cheap option with no downside.

Musuc wise it would be in the same direction, while my collection might be having less rock than I have more. And an ever bigger balance toward jazz and classical.

+1 Bert.  In general, I find that when it comes to cd's now, I only purchase the "The Essential <Artist>" complilations of HQ as most the the filler stuff is left off and one gets more bang for the cd buck.  When I stream, I am less picky and let my music travels explore a bit more, since its less costly that way.  I rip all my cd's to the Unity Core.  This allows me to save my pennies for the ND555.

Bailyhill

Everything being equal I would pick vinyl because when played through a properly set up system it sounds better in mt opinion and because I just like to own a physical copy.

I would probably stream from something like Qobuz for most .. and only buy the CD /lossless download if I really like the album/EP. I note that there is a lot less mainstream music that is still only available in CD.

One thing I have noticed with internet streaming, is that certain masters can become unavailable... so I wouldn’t rely on internet streaming for my core collection.

Streaming for me - CDs are all under the spare bed in boxes. I'm keeping my vinyl and LP12 but if I was starting from scratch I wouldn't shell out for it. Music is music, the equipment and medium are just a means to an end.

Vinyl, no question. Used market is a tresure, enough to find there for a livetime.

I've got hundreds of albums and CDs going back decades

I use vinyl , CDs , streaming, internet radio ( with LP12 / core / 272

If I was starting again....I would use just tidal ...

It really is that close to the others when well setup on a good broadband connection and network

If starting from scratch, I would stream from one of big name music suppliers, gradually creating playlists for the algorithm to do its thing and find new music. Then begin a collection of purchased high res downloads for the fav albums, and of course explore the secondhand CD market.

Even though I'm loving my vinyl revival and rediscovering records that have been in storage for years, for a number of reason I think my primary source is going to remain streamed music from a ripped CD & HD download collection. Simply because its so quick and easy to buy new albums online, have a disc ripped and ready to play, the convenience of cueing up two or three albums to follow one another (compared to vinyl), and of course the crazily cheap prices of secondhand CD media to expand the rip library. I just feel lucky that I can now experience both streamed and vinyl music delivery methods.

Still loving buying the odd secondhand vinyl LP though - just can't resist those large album sleeves!

I have a reasonable (bit over 1,000 albums) vinyl collection and my turntable (what was a super deck 25 years ago) is my primary source, but I wouldn’t start there now. I’d go digital, my CD collection runs to about 1,500, all ripped and played from NAS, and about 100 hires download albums.

Now if I were starting anew, I’d look at 2 questions. 

1) Do I want to own or rent? Buying second-hand CDs say, a 2,000 album album collection would cost around 10 thousand pounds, £20 a month from Tidal gives me access to 30,000 albums, and would give me about 40 years for £10k. So if a hires streaming system works well (I.e. listen to Tidal/Qobuz against a Cd rip/hires download) where you are, decide whether there is value in buying any content or renting. 

2) If you decide to own content, do you want to own discs, or just the digital copies?  I’m personally quite risk-averse, so I like owning the physical disc, ripping it and storing the original in the loft. I like a lot of older music (speaking to a 32 year old), so the  original recordings were not above  CD bit-rates, so hires often sounds worse. Again, if my musical taste started in the time when lots of hires record8ng sources happened, then maybe I’d buy downloads to get the recording as it was done.

For many years, I was that weirdo who stuck with LPs when everyone else had moved to CD. The very first CDs I heard sounded just awful, and I happily stuck with vinyl. There was absolutely nothing romantic in that for me. The 'ritual' of putting a treasured LP on the turntable that some refer to means nothing, I found it a PITA dealing with dust and scratches, interruptions half way through an album to change sides, and all that. I put up with it because I liked the sound, that's all. Now I admit that CDs did improve from those early days, but it wasn't until streaming came along that I moved away from vinyl as my primary source.

Now, with a streamer as my only source, I buy as much music as I ever did, nearly all of it on CD, which I rip, and store in the loft. I travel a lot, and find it much more convenient to take my own music with me than to rely on often flaky internet connections to stream from web based services. Also, there is no guarantee that any album now available on, say, Tidal, will continue to be available on it, even while your subscription continues. Albums I have saved as favourites sometimes cease to be available, I presume due to licensing agreements or whatever. So if I really like an album, I will buy a CD and rip it, or buy a download.

Harry posted:

I would have a physical copy of some sort. It would be ripped to WAV and streamed over my home network. The original would be stored. I still buy CDs but I don't play them. Rip and stream. Even when vinyl was the only high street audiophile option, I disliked the ritual, fragility and inconsistency of acquiring, storing, playing and caring for it.

Exactly the opposite of what Harry said

I'm 100% vinyl and have zero interest in the rest...

ATB,

Mark

Popeye posted:

what direction would you take?

 

Any.

Did have an LP12 years ago I added a NDX to my Olive system some 4 years ago after that the CD player just gathered dust.

The wide availability of good second hand CDs with the ability to rip and then store in the loft or wherever would be my preferred choice if starting again.

I also use Tidal but since I have not owned a CD player my CD purchases have increased and gente of music  I listen to is much wider the ease of browsing through your music collection on a tablet then playing I find is an added bonus of streaming.   

I kept a turntable because I listened to lots of House and Reggae music not available on CD but other than that I would buy the CD.  Then I started ripping all of my CD's and then file sharing came along and eventually Spotify and Tidal but perhaps I have cloth ears because none of it has ever compared to a record and a turntable.

Now I have never heard what a top of the range Linn streamer or an ND555 with two 555DR's sounds like and I probably never will but I have heard an NDS, an NDX, a 272, an ND5XS, a Uniti 2 and a UnitiQute  and none of those compared to a well set up record deck with a decent cartridge the NDS I heard came closest but it was still slightly light weight in comparison.

I cannot get my head round why you would spend £10-15,000 on a system but compromise on SQ because of convenience and interior decor. I'm not slagging off streaming I really enjoy Tidal and having my CD rips at the touch of a button and Tidal especially has revolutionised the way I listen to music and has broadened my musical horizons way beyond what they were and I wouldn't be without it but given the choice it would be a record player everytime.

I like my own content, but I also like to explore new (to me) music.  

In your case I would continue streaming and buying only CD quality or better files of the music you like the most, let's say 5/5 or 4/5 stars. Music that if for any reason is not available via streaming you can replay with your own files/media.

Assuming Johny Burglar makes off with all my CDs, LPs and both NAS drives along with all the kit that plays it, I'd have no qualms about it - streaming all the way. Physical media is merely a means of transferring a signal from where it's stored to get it into the system. Vinyl never grabbed me enough to want to invest enough in a good enough turntable to make it worth using, and anyway vinyl is £20+ a pop these days. CDs were great but they're just bit streams, and conveniently so is streamed audio. Unless I buy a Statement any system is always going to be missing something, but I can live with that as long as to my ears it sounds great. Plus which a CD collection built up over 35 years contains a lot of dross and stuff that I've either grown out of or become bored of listening to. Thanks to the burglar in 1994 who gave me a fresh start; another one wouldn't go amiss...  

So it's no issue at all for me - buy the best system around, add Tidal or similar as a primary source & continue with the current policy of raiding charity shops for interesting & fun CDs to rip to the NAS & then take back a day or so later for them to sell to someone else. Add maybe a few core must-have CDs ripped to the NAS, although having typed that I'm not sure why. If Tidal goes, there'll be something along in its wake to replace it.

For as long as I can remember music formats have come & gone, and presumably will continue to do so. It's more enjoyable to see if the next big thing can work for me, and then adopt it. CDs yes, Elcassette - err, no thanks. In 10 years time there'll be something that makes the ND555 look like a Woolies cassette player, and I'll happily migrate to whatever that is. Change is great.

I would rent and use Roon to "create" (and curate) my collection.

Roon makes no differentiation between local and Tidal (and soon to be Qobuz) content and is the best (IMO) program for organising and playing streamed music.

Roon management have specifically said they want to make Roon work equally as well for someone with thousands of ripped CDs and those with none.

This is Roon showing my Tidal content.

.sjb

No point in vinyl for me. Ironically it now costs more than CDs did when everyone was calling them a rip off and the difference between a good cd system and a good vinyl system is down to personal preference and your love of mechanical noise. I’ve had 2 dealers do A/B comparisons with vinyl/cd from the same master over the years and there really wasn’t much in it so cd would win every time on convenience and the availability of material. 

Similarly downloading and streaming simply doesn’t cut it on the breadth of material available nor user friendliness. I love the detail on some hi-res stuff but detail doesn’t automatically equate with musical engagement and I’m still waiting to hear a streamer that truly engages me and sets me tapping away or cranking the volume up. I’m a techy with networking skills but music should be plug and play and neither streaming nor downloads come anywhere near that. 

Having tried streaming via Spotify and Tidal I’d say no more than 1/2 to 2/3 of my 1,500 albums are available on streaming; less on downloads and probably less than 1/10 on vinyl so cd would be a no-brainer for me. 

I stream all my music, but from a home store of my own, not online streaming - or rather I use a free online streaming services (Spotify and even uTube) to check out new music to see if I want to buy, the sound quality not being important for that.

i would not have it any other way - streMing is at least as good as and can beat CD for sound quality, while vinyl is too flawed in comparison. However, relevant to this is that my musical taste don’t change much - they have widened slightly since I first started my own collection when I was about best part of 50 years ago, but I still like what I liked then, and virtually everything between, so all the albums I bought over time I still have - and still listen to (of course some more than others).

What concerns me with online streaming and takes it out of contention is surety of availability - today, tomorrow, next month, in 10 years’ time, which online is subject to the quality and reliability of internet connection at all times. It also requires suppliers to have the music I like, and ti stay in business or be replaced seemlessly by others as time passes, and those suppliers maintaining stock of the music I like in perpetuity. In addition, from what I gather online streaming can suffer in sound quality (unsurprisingly), and I would also cite cost, but if I was starting with no collection then subscribing online isn’t expensive in relative terms given the instant availability of lots of musicand possibly a real benefit until such time as I am able to amass a reasonable selection, however the notion of losing access to my music if I fail to maintain a subscription is untenable.