Are Super Lumina speaker cables stil a “work in progress?”

You’ll need to ask Naim, but I doubt it very much. As to the leads, I use them and they are excellent. The only way for you to know is to try some. 

hungryhalibut posted:

You’ll need to ask Naim, but I doubt it very much. As to the leads, I use them and they are excellent. The only way for you to know is to try some. 

The SL speaker cables are serious purchase and promise of enhanced performance. When 2-years after a reviewer whose track record on Naim is respectful and who routinely or universally includes Naim Classics in assessments, I can’t imagine that what he said went unnoticed, or was treated with indifference. Likewise, I can’t imagine that Naim’s MD wishes to hang out business’ internal musings to rationalize my circumspection. 

Personally I’ve come to respect and value a good measure of what’s offered on Forum and found it a balance to retailers who may have competing agendas. We are not living in age of internet buying because every retailer and sales person was informed. 

The SL cables are serious money. The first set I listened to was the speaker cables.  The uplift in performance was immediately obvious, substantial and in my view worth the expense. I think it took me less than 30 mins of playing stuff to reach that conclusion. So don't worry about what reviewers say, get hold of a set and use your own ears to judge.   

I like my SL cables, use them all the time. I liked them so much, both of my maiun systems run with them.

As to a review in question - who cares what Mr. Colomms wrote? 

The uplift in performance isn’t day and night comparing to NACA5 but then I decided that improvement even on a bare SN2 has been substantial enough for me to fork out the dosh. Obviously still having them now where the amps reincarnated into 252/250....

I thought it was a poorly worded review....

The" work in progress" to my interpretation means the speaker cable needed to run in.

My impression from reading the review was that Martin was not fully convinced by the SL speaker cables in regard to their ability to time.

SL speaker cables seems to elicit differing views.  I image there may be interactions depending on the speaker being used.  I can't image Naim lent Martin a pair of speaker cables for a review that were not already broken in?

Personally, I am happy there are alternatives to Naca5 that purport to maintain Naim's signature timing. SL speaker cables are on my audition short list.  

I'd read it as he thought Naim could do better with the speaker cable, hence the 'work in progress' remark. Unusual for a Colloms Naim review as it's normally glowing. He did like the SL interconnects though.

In the end it's just one reviewers opinion - they seem to hit the spot for most on here which is the important thing. 

At the end of the day it matters not one jot what a reviewer says or thinks: it’s not them sticking their hand in their pocket. All that matters is what the prospective purchaser thinks. 

I think Naim customers are a lot more demanding of Naim than most Hi-fi reviewers. 

I having heard brand new SL, and fully run in ones, these cables need a lot of run in to sound the way they were.

At the end of the day these are still passive components, and depend on the system and environment used.

The best we can hope from a speaker cable is to pass the information from the power amp to the speaker with the least possible damage.

In that respect, Naca5  is fine in terms of timing but not in terms of lowest bass extension and also hi-frequency refinement, it does hold back some to quite a lot of refinement depending on the rest of the system as compared to Superlumina which once run in, has no issues with timing. 

For a newer power amp like NAP250DR onwards with a suitable source and front end, I would say although very expensive, it is worth considering as an upgrade.

For me Super Lumina was where Naim started taking the p1ss. 

For me their price simply cannot justify R&D and production costs. It seems like a calculation based on “how much will the mugs pay?” 

In business terms I can appreciate not wanting to loose prospective business to Chord, but the Naim that initially attracted me were the belligerent NACA5 cost of production plus reasonable profit Naim.

.sjb

I am sure i recall NACA5 was £5 a metre now £50 as i recently discovered.

Obsydian posted:

I am sure i recall NACA5 was £5 a metre now £50 as i recently discovered.

That must have been many years ago!

I did a quick online search of the current price and most Naim sellers seem to have it at between £29 - £34 per metre.

They must still be a " work in progress" as there are no SL mains cables. other rarefied but essential cables unique in Naims portfolio have not yet been Supered.  Perhaps the comment was meant more in this sense ?

Yes indeed Sloop but it’s a high end cable and all of these cost money.

i guess one must then compare performance and cost to Vertere, Chord Sarum , Nordost And so many others like ... Tara labs (check their prices)

or just stay with Naca5, the Naim lavender and Snaics which are all fine cables

the advantages of superlumina is that there will always be a resale value .... 

Richard Dane posted:

Obsydian posted:

I am sure i recall NACA5 was £5 a metre now £50 as i recently discovered.

That must have been many years ago!

I did a quick online search of the current price and most Naim sellers seem to have it at between £29 - £34 per metre.

Thanks Richard probably my error as it was 20 years ago and to be honest when I bought my first full Naim setup, the A5 cost I probably never looked at compared to the other boxes.

Back in 1979 a Linn LP12 cost £249 and beer was 30p a pint. 

According to historic inflation rates the LP12 should cost around £1360.00 in today’s money but the basic model  cost twice as much. I wonder why? Maybe not selling as many as they used to so prices had the be artificially inflated!

I know people who will only buy or least only demo equipment that has had lots of favorable reviews in the hifi press. 

When you are looking to buy a system and are not very knowledgeable where else do you look for guidance except for the hifi press and what is a dealer except an exceptionally biased hifi reviewer. 

If people do not take notice of reviews then why do companies like Naim Audio send very expensive hifi to reviewers and why do they pay to advertise in these publications. 

Personally I do read reviews and do take not of what they say but would not base a decision solely on them. 

Tony2011 posted:

According to historic inflation rates the LP12 should cost around £1360.00 in today’s money but the basic model  cost twice as much. I wonder why? Maybe not selling as many as they used to so prices had the be artificially inflated!

 Perhaps  not so basic as it used to be?

better bearing , sub chassis etc.

To be fair here, the reviewer is Martin Colloms, who we all know is a user and admirer of Naim equipment, whilst the magazine is HiFi Critic, which, afaik, funds itself through copy sales not advertising (although, having worked in publishing for a number of years, the generally cynical attitude towards editorial independence/bias is in most cases incorrect - note I said “most”). 

Those of us who are in any way familiar with the magazine, and particularly Colloms as a reviewer, will no doubt fully endorse his enthusiastic comments about other Naim gear - I recently re-read his review of the 500DR and congratulated myself on coming to the same conclusions as he did. So, we can’t then decide that when he writes something we don’t really like about a Naim-branded product, his is just “another reviewer’s opinion”. It’s worth taking note at least.

But I would say that wouldn’t I, because I agree with the sentiment expressed. Heard SL many times in a variety of systems and, if you only heard them - and no other - in comparison to Naca5 you would probably find them better. But, IMO they are way overpriced for what they offer. I’d place them at around Chord Epic level but if I were to invest, I’d buy used and well run-in.

As others have said, it’s your choice, just make sure you listen beforehand, even if you feel unable to consider other brands, to ensure it’s money that you consider well-spent.

I also find some HIFI reviews useful depending on the reviewer and the publication.  They are not determinative but can help to make a short list for demos.  This is especially so for items that are difficult to demo at home ( eg. speakers, phono carts).   However, many ( the majority?) of hifi reviews read to me as marketing puff pieces.  Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, kudos to Martin Colloms for providing his honest opinion.  

There’s no way superlumina is at chord epic level

I’ve heard both and chord epic isn’t good enough in terms of timing to be in a Naim system

BritishSea posted:

My impression from reading the review was that Martin was not fully convinced by the SL speaker cables in regard to their ability to time.

SL speaker cables seems to elicit differing views.  I image there may be interactions depending on the speaker being used.  I can't image Naim lent Martin a pair of speaker cables for a review that were not already broken in?

Personally, I am happy there are alternatives to Naca5 that purport to maintain Naim's signature timing. SL speaker cables are on my audition short list.  

TOBYJUG posted:

They must still be a " work in progress" as there are no SL mains cables. other rarefied but essential cables unique in Naims portfolio have not yet been Supered.  Perhaps the comment was meant more in this sense ?

Dave J posted:

To be fair here, the reviewer is Martin Colloms, who we all know is a user and admirer of Naim equipment, whilst the magazine is HiFi Critic, which, afaik, funds itself through copy sales not advertising (although, having worked in publishing for a number of years, the generally cynical attitude towards editorial independence/bias is in most cases incorrect - note I said “most”). 

Those of us who are in any way familiar with the magazine, and particularly Colloms as a reviewer, will no doubt fully endorse his enthusiastic comments about other Naim gear - I recently re-read his review of the 500DR and congratulated myself on coming to the same conclusions as he did. So, we can’t then decide that when he writes something we don’t really like about a Naim-branded product, his is just “another reviewer’s opinion”. It’s worth taking note at least.

But I would say that wouldn’t I, because I agree with the sentiment expressed. Heard SL many times in a variety of systems and, if you only heard them - and no other - in comparison to Naca5 you would probably find them better. But, IMO they are way overpriced for what they offer. I’d place them at around Chord Epic level but if I were to invest, I’d buy used and well run-in.

As others have said, it’s your choice, just make sure you listen beforehand, even if you feel unable to consider other brands, to ensure it’s money that you consider well-spent.

BritishSea, TOBYJUG  and  Dave J, each summarized important reasons to question why Naim did not respond to Colloms SL review!

I am not dismissing the efficacy of adding SL cables to Naim system.  As a music-lover and not audiophile acquiring Naim has been smartest/best route for managing my domestic musical life. While some, especially in UK, have  benefit of agile audio retail world, stateside the system is quite brittle with consumers offered no home demos and in-store demos often feeling timed and sheltered.

The cost of  new Naim gear is less of personal concern than being clear the purchase will enhance my listening. As example as much as I tried I  could not identify meaningful improvement  from HiLine interconnects. They were installed by retailer and reinstalled and installed again just  to make sure. Buying is not the same as adding something appreciably better. On balance over many years Colloms' assessments and insights have influenced my Naim purchases together with some on the Forum.  Going back to my question why has Naim who posted Colloms' SL cable review not commented?  TOBYJUG's suggestion of "work in progress" may be the answer, although with Naim introductions I 'd hate to hold my breath.  In coming weeks I will audition and compare if allowed. Does anyone know why Chord's Sarum T cables get "screaming approval" from otherwise Naim devotees on the Forum?       

Please bear in mind that, although I’ve heard Sarum T speaker cables (I do use Sarum T power cords), I’ve only owned the earlier standard Sarum versions, so can only comment on them (and the ChordMusic cables that I now use, which are something else entirely!)

They allowed me to get the best out my Naim system, simple as that. I’d never heard my Naim system sound so wonderful as when I first it with Sarum. It gave access to elements of the music and, more importantly, the performance,  that I’d previously never been aware of.  

Oh yeah, and that includes timing, which some seem to think is down to speaker cable choice. It’s not, the groove we all love so much about Naim is from what’s upstream, speaker cables just get in the way or not. Sarum doesn’t get in the way.