Bargain DAC for Sonos

Have a look at the Schiit website. Not heard myself, but reasonable SQ & VFM by all accounts.

If you were in the UK , and don't mind buying used, I would have suggested a Chord Hugo, as there are quite a few around at good prices now that the H2 has been out for a while. Or maybe a 2Qute, or possibly even a Mojo. Not sure about availability in the US, though - perhaps Schiit might be easier to find there?

I agree with CHRISSU but even at used prices I think you'd struggle to get a Hugo or a 2Qute to the U.S for under $600 but perhaps a Mojo.                                                                                  

I'm familiar with Chord, I believe it is available, and I'll look into Schiit as well.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Yes, a used Hugo for $600 might be a bit optimistic. In the UK, they can be had for under £600 now, but there are a lot of them around. 

One observation, to get the most out of a Hugo, it really needs a very stable SPDIF transport clock, and in my experience, my Sonos Connect doesn’t provide that and never sounded that great into my Hugo... you may be better off with a lesser spec and cheaper DAC.  The Hugo is very goodindeed, but it’s compromise it’s nice high quality preamp and DAC to get the most out of it.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

One observation, to get the most out of a Hugo, it really needs a very stable SPDIF transport clock, and in my experience, my Sonos Connect doesn’t provide that and never sounded that great into my Hugo... you may be better off with a lesser spec and cheaper DAC.  The Hugo is very goodindeed, but it’s compromise it’s nice high quality preamp and DAC to get the most out of it.

Is the Hugo particularly demanding in this respect, or is that just a comment on DACs in general requiring a better transport then the Sonos? Given that the Hugo, being portable, was designed to work with phones, laptops etc. one wouldn't expect it to be unusually fussy compared to other DACs.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

One observation, to get the most out of a Hugo, it really needs a very stable SPDIF transport clock, and in my experience, my Sonos Connect doesn’t provide that and never sounded that great into my Hugo... you may be better off with a lesser spec and cheaper DAC.  The Hugo is very goodindeed, but it’s compromise it’s nice high quality preamp and DAC to get the most out of it.

Three of Rob Watts own comments elsewhere  on the susceptibility of his DACs to jitter ...

“1. SPDIF decoding is all digital within the FPGA. The FPGA uses a digital phase lock loop (DPLL) and a tiny buffer. This re-clocks the data and eliminates the incoming jitter from the source. This system took 6 years to perfect, and means that the sound quality defects from source jitter is eliminated. How do I know that? Measurements - 2 uS of jitter has no affect whatsoever on measurements (and I can resolve noise floor at -180dB with my APX555) and sound quality tests against RAM buffer systems revealed no significant difference. You can (almost) use a piece of damp string and the source jitter will be eliminated.

2. USB is isochronous asynchronous. This means that the FPGA supplies the timing to the source, and incoming USB data is re clocked from the low jitter master clock. So again source jitter is eliminated.

But with all of my DAC's you do not need to worry at all about source jitter, so all of the above AK numbers are fine. So long as its below 2uS (that is 2,000,000 pS) you are OK, and nobody has jitter that bad!”

 I reckon the o/p would be delighted with a Mojo and even more delighted with a Hugo. If he connects  via optical there would be no ground or rf noise issues.

I'm under the impression that the Sonos provides a 'bit-perfect' stream (or at least bit-perfect-enough), and if I'm interpreting the above technical info correctly, that would appear to be the case?

The Hugo is at a good price point, but it would appear that I need to convert 1/8" outputs to RCA, and that extra step kinda kills me, so I'm looking for RCA outputs.

The Qutest looks  nice, but getting expensive.

I discovered that Schiit is made in California so therefore accessible to me, but while people report good things, I've seen technical analyses that suggest their products are shite . I do realize that technical analysis isn't the final word as far as how a component will actually sound, and I do like their price-points, but I'll need to look further into them.

Thanks again for the responses.

charlieo posted:

The Hugo is at a good price point, but it would appear that I need to convert 1/8" outputs to RCA, and that extra step kinda kills me, so I'm looking for RCA outputs.

The Qutest looks  nice, but getting expensive.

 

Naim's preference is for BNC connectors on their digital connectors, and DIN for most analogue connectors, in preference to RCA, but I wouldn't let that put you off. With the right cables, the Hugo is a great sounding DAC. You might also consider the 2Qute (predecessor to the Qutest) if you are looking at the second hand market.  

What dac did you eventually get for the Sonos Connect?

My post is relatively late but If you are still searching then worth considering the Rega Dac (used). It worked great with my Sonos Connect feeding a Naim amplifier. Perhaps equally important, the Rega Dac does not employ a buffer so it does not introduce a delay in playback. This is relevant if you have other sonos devices around and you want to sync playback. A while back I was using the Sonos Connect with a Naim Dac V1 as well as a a CHORD QBD76 HD. They sound amazing but they buffer the input and thus introduce a delay in playback.  The Dacs I tried with the Sonos Connect were: Rega Dac, Arcam IrDac II, Musical Fidelity V90, Audiolab MDAC plus. These are fine with sync (no delay due to buffering) and they sound great. The Rega Dac and the V90 are my favourites for the Sonos Connect.

Best

Y

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

One observation, to get the most out of a Hugo, it really needs a very stable SPDIF transport clock, and in my experience, my Sonos Connect doesn’t provide that and never sounded that great into my Hugo... you may be better off with a lesser spec and cheaper DAC.  The Hugo is very goodindeed, but it’s compromise it’s nice high quality preamp and DAC to get the most out of it.

Hi Simon you have mentioned USB is not ideal as an input into Hugo.

reading a lot about this - seems the USB receiver itself in the DAC is a source of noise.

keen to get more feedback from you...

Have a look at the Metrum Acoustics Flint...

YiannisK posted:

Perhaps equally important, the Rega Dac does not employ a buffer so it does not introduce a delay in playback. This is relevant if you have other sonos devices around and you want to sync playback. A while back I was using the Sonos Connect with a Naim Dac V1 as well as a a CHORD QBD76 HD. They sound amazing but they buffer the input and thus introduce a delay in playback.  The Dacs I tried with the Sonos Connect were: Rega Dac, Arcam IrDac II, Musical Fidelity V90, Audiolab MDAC plus. These are fine with sync (no delay due to buffering) and they sound great. The Rega Dac and the V90 are my favourites for the Sonos Connect.

Best

Y

Out of interest, I have considered getting a Sonos Connect to run into the digital input of my NDS, so on occasions I could sync my Sonos speakers with my Naim system.  

I hadn't considered whether there would be any buffering playing into the NDS' dac which would cause it to play out of sync with the other Sonos equipment.  Does anyone know whether the NDS  buffers the feed from a digital input (and apologies to the OP for a brief derailment from topic)?

I don't know about the NDS but I run a Sonos Connect into my Superuniti and it remains  perfectly synched with my 5 other zones. That's digital out from the connect into  coax  on the Superuniti.

Jason, Chris, that is very interesting and great to hear. I have not tried the connect with an NDS or a Superuniti. Maybe these units do not use the input buffering that the Dac V1 employs. When I tried the Sonos connect with a Nova (coax in) at my local dealer, the same echo occurred. Slight lack of sync with a Sonos One.

I forgot to mention that I also have a Unitqute 24/192  and  again the Connect synchs perfectly with all zones, my dealer at that time assured me that it would. I also reclocked the digital signal  from the Connect via a Rega Dac and then digital into Unitiqute again all synced and better than directly into the Unitiqute....but an extra box.

Thanks Chris, Yiannisk.  Hopefully the NDS won't have a sync issue with the Sonos and will work with it like the Superuniti and Unitiqute does. 

You want a Chord Mojo or a Schiit Bifrost MultiBit. 

Either one would sound as good as you can get at $600 new. 

s/h Benchmark dac1 or Rega dac