Simple guide to Hi-Res

[@mention:65203403967821924], I don't think you need to worry about the file formats. FLAC contains the same data as WAV and while it sounds different "sometimes", that is more to do with the noise generating in processing the unpacking of the file. A NAS that transcodes to WAV on the fly will work just as well. I certainly have a mixture of both. And things like Asset will do that so if you want the convenience of FLAC, stick with it. I find the audible differences of not transcoding FLAC to WAV greatly exaggerated too. 

I think software like iTunes and Windows Media Player can perform a bit perfect rip if:

1) The disc is in exceptional shape (not old and a bit natty from late night parties).
2) The host is laptop where it would be assumed the drive offset would be known to the OS. For anything else, the drive offset needs to be looked up or measured and that's a pain.
3) The drive is of excellent quality. My old LG drive hadn't a hope in hell of getting a decent rip with Windows Media Player. My current Pioneer one almost certainly can.

For what it's worth, your bog standard media software tends to rip in burst mode because a) it is faster for the impatient and b) the laser is less prone to be led off course by a scratch and deliver a playable rip from a less than perfect disc. dbpoweramp and EAC allow all this to be turned off. I tend to use EAC for ripping and dbpoweramp for tagging but if the resulting rip matches the Accurate Rip database checksum, then at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you use. It is all about the odds. It is not that the lesser tools cannot do that; merely that it is less likely.

I was trying to avoid mentioning Jazz and Classical in my post because these genres do tend to be a bit of a audiophile cliché and while the stereotype can hold a bit true quite often, voicing it could ruffle feathers on the forum. But indeed, the download sites are more heavily weighted to these genres - neither of which I'm particularly fond of.

Saying that, my first HD album of the year cropped up yesterday (been unlucky so far in 2018). The Dead Weather: Dodge and Burn.

Hey Zen,

When I first was buying hi res, the only sites I knew were HD Tracks, Linn & Naim. I saw that HD Tracks were aiff & wav, Linn were aiff & flac, and Naim was wav and I think alac. So I thought, I'll go with the odds and choose aiff as my first preference. If it's good enough for Linn.... BTW I am aware that the situation now is different.

But I did some comparisons, and frankly couldn't pick if there was a difference, so long as the sampling rate was the same. I have revisited this several times, as this topic gets re-hashed on the Forum quite often. I still can't pick it. So my Pinot Noir pickled brain/ear is suspect or it's not there to hear...

Resolution is possible for me to pick, but honestly, sometimes if the stars aren't aligned I do doubt myself. By this I mean an A-B comparison, although as I'm the DJ and I know which is which. I have also done this for many visitors, some of whom are hifi nuts and some of whom couldn't give a toss. Most times the poor person pressganged into confirming my bias picks the hi-res as "betterer" but not always.

Since we started this little discussion I have revisited Sgt Peppers and it seems clear, (given all the mastering mysteries and emotional baggage), that the latest version is indeed the greatest. But I also listened to a bog standard "Spirit In The Sky" by Eric Greenbaum and it blew me away. Must have been the gospel chorus but gee the involvement was intense. And it's a pretty hackneyed song. The fuzz on the lead guitar riff was amazingly clear. It's afternoon here and I haven't touched the liquor cabinet either. I swear. 

But I will revisit file formats. I spent ten years as a guru Linn/Naim pusher, (was just playing Steppenwolf "The Pusher"in 24-192 and couldn't help that sorry), so whilst I am pretty clear about upgrades, (they're generally apparent without too much over thinking), I also accept that some "ïmprovements" sort of get under your skin by osmosis. I follow your comments avidly, (don't blush), so watch what thoughts you put out there.

I am also a Tango nut so just about to download yet another Astor Piazzolla album. it's not all classical/jazz here in sunny West Australia.

I will simply list some "bullet points" from my journey during the past years (related to this topic of course). 

1. I have not been able to distinguish HiRes from CD quality in the test tracks provided by e.g. Linn

2. on several occasions in this forum I have proposed a simple test which eliminates all other factors (mastering, ripping equipment, ripping software): take any HiRes or DSD track and successively convert it to lower resolution (using the s/w of your choice: dBpoweramp, foobar...). Can you on an ABX test reliably tell the difference between the original track and CD resolution or between CD resolution and mp3 resolution ?  I have tried several times and (embarrassingly enough)  I could not do so down to and including mp3 320. But then my hearing ability rapidly rolls off after 10 kHz so possibly this is the reason why :-)

3. That being said when I buy music online (which i do from many different sources: Qobuz, Naim, Linn, B&W-LSO, 2L, Channel Classics, HighResAudio, PrestoClassical..., HDTracks) I go for the 24 bit depth version in the hope that (a) ABX tests are inadequate (b) my set up has limitations and could improve (I won't say the same about my hearing ability)

DrPo posted:

I will simply list some "bullet points" from my journey during the past years (related to this topic of course). 

1. I have not been able to distinguish HiRes from CD quality in the test tracks provided by e.g. Linn

2. on several occasions in this forum I have proposed a simple test which eliminates all other factors (mastering, ripping equipment, ripping software): take any HiRes or DSD track and successively convert it to lower resolution (using the s/w of your choice: dBpoweramp, foobar...). Can you on an ABX test reliably tell the difference between the original track and CD resolution or between CD resolution and mp3 resolution ?  I have tried several times and (embarrassingly enough)  I could not do so down to and including mp3 320. But then my hearing ability rapidly rolls off after 10 kHz so possibly this is the reason why :-)

3. That being said when I buy music online (which i do from many different sources: Qobuz, Naim, Linn, B&W-LSO, 2L, Channel Classics, HighResAudio, PrestoClassical..., HDTracks) I go for the 24 bit depth version in the hope that (a) ABX tests are inadequate (b) my set up has limitations and could improve (I won't say the same about my hearing ability)

 

 

If MP3 doesn't sound worse than Redbook or 24 bit tracks then there is something amiss.  I'm not familiar with your amp and speakers but the NDX should show the differences very easily.

steve95775 posted:

Bart posted:

steve95775 posted:

Of course, a lot of the hi res issues have been remastered, so comparing the hot off the, (virtual), press Sgt Pepper's 50th Anniversary issue with the older 2009 cd rip is not like for like. 

Sgt. Pepper's 50th anniversary edition is not merely remastered - it's a remix from different tapes, etc. Truly not apples for apples.

And here lies the problem. And the fun! 

As for Sgt Pepper's, years ago I got to compare an original, (albeit Australian), pressing to the MFSL box set stereo issue. My turntable was an LP12/Ekos/Troika and playback was via my aging tri-amp Isobariks. Awesome and of course I bought the MFSL set.  Currently I have a circa 1995 CD, the 2009 CD re-issue which was remastered, the 2009 24-44 Apple USB stick version of the same, and the recent 24-96 50th anniversary issue. I was born in 1959 and my older brothers had the record playing on the stereogram when I was a very involved 8 year old. So "Ä Day In The Life" has been a day in my life for over 50 years. I think I know the album well. Whilst I can't compare the vinyl anymore, and the tri-amps are long gone, there were details in the most recent issue that were so surprising and so wonderful.

Yes there are 'things' we never heard (much) before in there for a good reason - Giles Martin (Sir George Martin's son) put 'em in there.  I guess more specifically he fished them out of the original tapes and emphasized them.

You're right about 'problem' and 'fun.'  There is great fun in hearing these new versions (also keep in mind The Beatles "Love" mash-ups), but they also bring about certain cognitive anomalies a la 'that's not right!' 

My wife is an even bigger Beatles fan than I am, and she can't really bring herself to listen to the Love mash-ups (but she did let me buy tickets for the Cirque du Soleil show when we visit Las Vegas in a couple of weeks).  But she's OK with the new Sgt. Pepper's.   

Access to this wide variety of music and versions doesn't REQUIRE steaming capabilities, but it sure helps.

(I own one of those green Apple usb things as well; it sits on top of my ND555 on my rack and I think it's cute!)

Hey Bart,

This Sgt Pepper rabbit hole just gets curiouser and curiouser! I was aware of Giles Martin being involved. I read somewhere that George Martin brought him in as his “ears”.

So far no one has broached the mono versus stereo thingie either, thankfully. I also have the 2009 reissue in 16-44 mono. Mad I admit, listened to a few tracks and put it to one side, having scratched the itch. Yes it’s more ballsy but not my cup of tea.

But back to the thread. Hmmm... what point was I trying to make. Bah, who cares. It’s the music that counts.

Perhaps HiRes is over-hyped. My amp and speakers are quite revealing. I was surprised to be able to discern differences between the same track on two different NAS's and I have heard differences between a 16 vs 24 version album (e.g. Neil Young's Harvest) but the latter was remastered .

The test I propose cannot be performed on my main system as I'd need an ABX capable S/W "source". I thus perform it on my office headphones system.

I am not claiming that I don't hear differences between various resolutions on my main system. But as I cannot ABX them I cannot be sure if it is expectations management or not. That's why I do the test on my headphone system and when I do so I cannot reliably tell the differences.

I would invite you to take the ABX test :-)

For me, the principal reason to have bought an nds and not second hand cd555 is the hirez format.   For modern recordings , on my system, I really appreciate the boost in sound quality with 24 bit downloads.  I wish there will be more high rez in the future, because for now a lot of new albums are proposed only in 16/44 format.  ( for the albums I am interested by).