DSP/room correction a good idea with Naim stuff? Or bass traps?

The whole thing with DSP is quite interesting ......... consider this - the hi fi industry strives to meet very tight standards - essentially trying to attain a flat frequency response ........ however the rooms most people use.........probably introduce.......at least 5dB variation or more .......... I am sure Naim is correct DSP does alter sound quality,....... however if you get a correction benefit of 5 db or more ......... then the sq hit is more than compensated for . It is interesting that the Kii speaker is loaded with complex DSP and class D amps ......... but gains rave reviews.........

I have recently changed rooms ........ and I had a really nasty 60hz boom that i could not eradicate by placement ......... I tried Roon DSP and put a notch in at 60hz and bingo....it is terrific ......... however, listening deep into the mix I am sure it has done something......air/space/image placement seems to be marginally effected. But the gains due to the boom eradication are very very impressive . My solution ultimately - may mean a speaker change to an infinite baffle speaker such as the P3esr....and remove the DSP..... 

I have the D48R as well. I assume you are trying to do everything possible before you have to move them on for something more appropriate for your room ?

Have you tried or are able to demo. isolation feet under the speakers ? Someone here with similar speakers have Herbie Fat Gliders under theirs and swear by them. 

One thing always comes up on these threads that I don’t understand why does a stand mounted speaker have to sound better than a floor standing speaker of the same dimensions? 

Richieroo posted:

The whole thing with DSP is quite interesting ......... consider this - the hi fi industry strives to meet very tight standards - essentially trying to attain a flat frequency response ........ however the rooms most people use.........probably introduce.......at least 5dB variation or more .......... I am sure Naim is correct DSP does alter sound quality,....... however if you get a correction benefit of 5 db or more ......... then the sq hit is more than compensated for . It is interesting that the Kii speaker is loaded with complex DSP and class D amps ......... but gains rave reviews.........

I have recently changed rooms ........ and I had a really nasty 60hz boom that i could not eradicate by placement ......... I tried Roon DSP and put a notch in at 60hz and bingo....it is terrific ......... however, listening deep into the mix I am sure it has done something......air/space/image placement seems to be marginally effected. But the gains due to the boom eradication are very very impressive . My solution ultimately - may mean a speaker change to an infinite baffle speaker such as the P3esr....and remove the DSP..... 

I guess it’s each to their own Richie. Jason at Naim mentioned Roy George was against DSP as they go to great lengths to keep the signal integrity for sound quality......then mess around with it? He gave a simple example if your door is affecting the SQ, do something about the door, not the signal processing. So I take from that it’s not going to be a Naim option any time soon.

Gazza posted:

Richieroo posted:

The whole thing with DSP is quite interesting ......... consider this - the hi fi industry strives to meet very tight standards - essentially trying to attain a flat frequency response ........ however the rooms most people use.........probably introduce.......at least 5dB variation or more .......... I am sure Naim is correct DSP does alter sound quality,....... however if you get a correction benefit of 5 db or more ......... then the sq hit is more than compensated for . It is interesting that the Kii speaker is loaded with complex DSP and class D amps ......... but gains rave reviews.........

I have recently changed rooms ........ and I had a really nasty 60hz boom that i could not eradicate by placement ......... I tried Roon DSP and put a notch in at 60hz and bingo....it is terrific ......... however, listening deep into the mix I am sure it has done something......air/space/image placement seems to be marginally effected. But the gains due to the boom eradication are very very impressive . My solution ultimately - may mean a speaker change to an infinite baffle speaker such as the P3esr....and remove the DSP..... 

I guess it’s each to their own Richie. Jason at Naim mentioned Roy George was against DSP as they go to great lengths to keep the signal integrity for sound quality......then mess around with it? He gave a simple example if your door is affecting the SQ, do something about the door, not the signal processing. So I take from that it’s not going to be a Naim option any time soon.

Quite possibly that's an outdated view on the capabilities of DSP and could be referring to a largely analogue World.

With a digital source its theoretically possible to apply room related adjustments (ie those below 100Hz) without messing up the signal.

And don't forget, the signal has already been mangled by much worse processing as part of the production process.  It's also rather purist to think that a majority of customers can move doors or alter rooms in other ways to suit the hifi, most of us don't have that luxury.

I believe Naim are already on board with DSP in MuSo and Bentley, so I wouldn't rule it out. As long as they make it optional, that would suit everyone.

Gazza posted:

 

 Jason at Naim mentioned Roy George was against DSP as they go to great lengths to keep the signal integrity for sound quality......then mess around with it? He gave a simple example if your door is affecting the SQ, do something about the door, not the signal processing. So I take from that it’s not going to be a Naim option any time soon.

Good in theory, though I note from the system photos on  forum that not many people have treatments evident in their rooms, even with the more expensive kit, yet all rooms inevitably have an effect (not just doors), though of course some more than others. If faced with a room having objectionable adverse effects that for whatever reason cannot be fixed by room alterations (domestic harmony, other room uses, available homes etc), then DSP may well be the better answer.

And I certainly don't understand people denying themselves part of the music by changing to a small speaker with reduced bass output just to cope with a particular bass problem like a strong peak at 60Hz or whatever: to me that needs either room treatment or DSP (or both), otherwise it is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Any negatives of the DSP are outweighed by fully hearing the music.

I am not a fan of DSP based correction as it’s influencing the signal as such. I am myself using quite non-intrusive physical room correction. It doesn’t need to be big and ugly to be effective as you can see in my room, where most people wouldn’t immediately recognize it. And it’s not totally perfect, but it’s miles away from a room without correction. The problem as always is that you would need to change it again with change of components like me bringing in my ND555 which created more extension in bass....., but ok that’s the journey.

I am also a firm believer of adaption of your speakers to at least the room dimensions. Not saying you shouldn’t have full dimension speakers in a small room, but be a bit sensible of comparing dimensions and the capabilities of the speakers.

sunbeamgls posted:

Quite possibly that's an outdated view on the capabilities of DSP and could be referring to a largely analogue World.

With a digital source its theoretically possible to apply room related adjustments (ie those below 100Hz) without messing up the signal.

And don't forget, the signal has already been mangled by much worse processing as part of the production process.  It's also rather purist to think that a majority of customers can move doors or alter rooms in other ways to suit the hifi, most of us don't have that luxury.

I believe Naim are already on board with DSP in MuSo and Bentley, so I wouldn't rule it out. As long as they make it optional, that would suit everyone.

I already tried that approach doing DSP on the files, using various techniques, including upsampling to 24/192 before processing (and then writing the file at that resolution to avoid a second loss of quality).  In all cases the processed files lost something even in frequency areas that hadn't been manipulated.  A subtle loss was of quality was always particularly noticeable in the mid range and with voices.

This is why I only do DSP in the feed to the sub leaving the feed to the main speakers unprocessed.

Bert Schurink posted:

I am not a fan of DSP based correction as it’s influencing the signal as such. I am myself using quite non-intrusive physical room correction. It doesn’t need to be big and ugly to be effective as you can see in my room, where most people wouldn’t immediately recognize it. And it’s not totally perfect, but it’s miles away from a room without correction. The problem as always is that you would need to change it again with change of components like me bringing in my ND555 which created more extension in bass....., but ok that’s the journey.

I am also a firm believer of adaption of your speakers to at least the room dimensions. Not saying you shouldn’t have full dimension speakers in a small room, but be a bit sensible of comparing dimensions and the capabilities of the speakers.

I also have to add that I am relatively blessed with a good setting of the basic conditions. The part of the room I am listening in is 6 by 4,5 meter, so means I am about 3,5/4 meters away of the speakers. The issues with it overall, echoes and bass are pretty easy to compensate with my room correction. Only 5 small panels. Others might not be so blessed with an easy room.