Both. They define each other.

Not sure how you can listen to your Hi-Fi unless you listening to the transformer hum etc. I play music, dramas, films etc through my Hi-Fi... and I listen to whatever it’s rendering.

if you are referring to listening out for distortions or anomalies, then unfortunately that suggests to me whatever your setup currently  is, it is not sufficiently satisfying for you (yet) and not rendering audio in a sufficiently absorbing and enjoyable  way. I am sure when you get to that point the odd quirk or blemish becomes kind of irrelevant... and you will hear, I suspect, more irregularities from the master being played than from your system.

Dalamtian posted:

Do you listen to the HiFi or do you listen to the music, every time I upgrade I tend to listen to the HiFi and then the music as a secondary part of the upgrade? I wonder what ratio we really listen to our beloved systems?

Nick

Me too and I think it's natural that having changed or altered an aspect of a system you're going to compare before and after. How major any change is will probably determine how long it will take for you to accept what's coming out of your speakers as "normal" and in time you'll forget what it was like before and begin to focus on the music itself. That is unless you don't actually like what you've done in which case it'll grate on you for all time!

Went out with a view to buying some new hardware this week and ended up buying CDs and vinyl.   

I do think that you can listen to your hifi instead of enjoying the music. Especially when you have a significant upgrade, it’s easy to focus on things like deeper bass, clearer imaging, etc. It’s perhaps a little too easy to focus on all this when trying to assess a potential purchase against what you own. The real sign that your system is singing is when you realise that you’ve forgotten about all that, and you just get drawn into the music. 

I only listen to the hi-fi when I audition potential new kit. When I've found I've forgotten to listen to the hi-fi and am listening to the music, I know I have found something worth keeping.

Dalamtian posted:

Do you listen to the HiFi or do you listen to the music, every time I upgrade I tend to listen to the HiFi and then the music as a secondary part of the upgrade? I wonder what ratio we really listen to our beloved systems?

Nick

We do both, even more on hifi ,otherwise we wouldn`t invest  so much money on a music system, people who are interesting only in music are not here, they enjoy music through a regular radio or a cheap system

Music, for those that can play a musical instrument would understand why naim do it so well. 

Hifi doesn’t make you tap you foot, music does

Hifi is secondary. 

???? MENI48,....????????????,You can't mean this above,maybe we define Hifi and Music different..Because of the nuances and that we live in different countries.

/Peder ????

meni48 posted:

Dalamtian posted:

Do you listen to the HiFi or do you listen to the music, every time I upgrade I tend to listen to the HiFi and then the music as a secondary part of the upgrade? I wonder what ratio we really listen to our beloved systems?

Nick

We do both, even more on hifi ,otherwise we wouldn`t invest  so much money on a music system, people who are interesting only in music are not here, they enjoy music through a regular radio or a cheap system

Can’t agree with that. 

Sounsfaber posted:

meni48 posted:

Dalamtian posted:

Do you listen to the HiFi or do you listen to the music, every time I upgrade I tend to listen to the HiFi and then the music as a secondary part of the upgrade? I wonder what ratio we really listen to our beloved systems?

Nick

We do both, even more on hifi ,otherwise we wouldn`t invest  so much money on a music system, people who are interesting only in music are not here, they enjoy music through a regular radio or a cheap system

Can’t agree with that. 

Really? There are more of people who listen to music cheaply (and enjoy it) compared to those who require expensive kit.

Other brands do hifi better than naim. But naim do music better than most. I think you will find when you get to a 500 system hifi is great but the music is better. As I said most people that play an instrument will get what I’m saying.   pRat plays a very large part of the musical engagement, just like when one is jamming with a friend. Every box naim make has it.

Some can just afford more expensive. They think it’s hifi but at the end of the day it’s the music.

If you install and optimize an entry level music-system after music...the musical message.
And that music-system costs say € 2000:-.

Then you install a music-system for say € 10, 000:- after Hifi parameters,..well,then everyone will find that the first music-system for € 2000:- is more engaging and more "foot tapping".

When we listen to music,..it's the musical message,that the musicians want to convey that is the most important.
Not sound/hifi factors,..that it sounds cool with clips in the base.
That you gets tired of pretty fast

/Peder ????

Music every time or what's the point.

The HiFi is just a transport, after 1 second of pressing play I forget about the HiFi.

People upgrade specifically because they have statrted to hear something either better or something they believe can be improved upon. At that point you have been distracted from music and are indeed listening to the hi-fi. Hardly controversial.

Mike Hughes posted:

People upgrade specifically because they have statrted to hear something either better or something they believe can be improved upon. At that point you have been distracted from music and are indeed listening to the hi-fi. Hardly controversial.

I’m sure for some that is the case. I upgraded because I “felt” more music with the upgrade.

Just by choosing  the music to play is an emotional connection, the way you want to feel at that point in time.  I’m sure we have listen to very expensive systems that sound great, but we just do not get connected to the emotion which is relayed by the music. Naim do that music connection extremely well.  As you all know they have been doing it for a very long time. 

For me it’s black and white. But of course each individual has an idea what they look for.

Just try to look past the hifi part and see how the actual music makes you feel.  

Guinnless posted:

Sounsfaber posted:

meni48 posted:

Dalamtian posted:

Do you listen to the HiFi or do you listen to the music, every time I upgrade I tend to listen to the HiFi and then the music as a secondary part of the upgrade? I wonder what ratio we really listen to our beloved systems?

Nick

We do both, even more on hifi ,otherwise we wouldn`t invest  so much money on a music system, people who are interesting only in music are not here, they enjoy music through a regular radio or a cheap system

Can’t agree with that. 

Really? There are more of people who listen to music cheaply (and enjoy it) compared to those who require expensive kit.

That is a logical non-sequitur; you are correct that many, many more people listen to music on inexpensive kit, be it a stock car system, earbuds, cheap stereo, etc. No denying that. But to then take that fact and posit that those who are interested only in music are not here is patently incorrect.

Music is the reason for hifi, not the other way around.

If I had to choose between having a mediocre system (which I kind of do in my bedroom) and keeping my music, or having my Naim system but having limited music access, I'd pick the former over the latter EVERY time. Of course, I enjoy my music more (in a sense) on the better system, but that doesn't mean I am listening to hifi, although as others have pointed out, after an upgrade or while auditioning, that does happen, but only as a means to an end; music.

“Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST.” - Frank Zappa

DrMark posted:

Guinnless posted:

Sounsfaber posted:

meni48 posted:

Dalamtian posted:

Do you listen to the HiFi or do you listen to the music, every time I upgrade I tend to listen to the HiFi and then the music as a secondary part of the upgrade? I wonder what ratio we really listen to our beloved systems?

Nick

We do both, even more on hifi ,otherwise we wouldn`t invest  so much money on a music system, people who are interesting only in music are not here, they enjoy music through a regular radio or a cheap system

Can’t agree with that. 

Really? There are more of people who listen to music cheaply (and enjoy it) compared to those who require expensive kit.

That is a logical non-sequitur; you are correct that many, many more people listen to music on inexpensive kit, be it a stock car system, earbuds, cheap stereo, etc. No denying that. But to then take that fact and posit that those who are interested only in music are not here is patently incorrect.

Music is the reason for hifi, not the other way around.

If I had to choose between having a mediocre system (which I kind of do in my bedroom) and keeping my music, or having my Naim system but having limited music access, I'd pick the former over the latter EVERY time. Of course, I enjoy my music more (in a sense) on the better system, but that doesn't mean I am listening to hifi, although as others have pointed out, after an upgrade or while auditioning, that does happen, but only as a means to an end; music.

Anybody who is on here has an interest in HiFi, otherwise they wouldn't be here.   Witness the endless twiddling with fuses, mains leads,FLAC vs WAV etc;   the HIFi is a means to access the music and it's fun (not wrong) to upgrade and tweak.

I was buying music as a teenager when all we had was a 1970s "Music Centre".  And prior to that a 1960s radiogram witha a reel-to-reel tape deck and record multichanger.

For me listening to music is an event and not a casual thing to do.  Low quality, background music all day or a few evenings and weekends with my high quality system?  High quality every time for me.

Hi Fi is not in my vocabulary. It's all about music or theatre. If it don't sound right it ain't right! In a demo or listening to a new upgrade I never try to dissect the equipment, I only want to enjoy the experience long term. It must remind me of a live performance each time I listen, if not out it goes. Rich 

I enjoy my music when it's re-played in hi-fidelity. Therefore, I guess it's a case of both for me!

I wonder sometimes. I can enjoy music payed on almost anything, even the car 'system' sounds good. Generally the event is simply more enjoyable on the main system, but....

What really irks me is that that something that sounds acceptable, even good, on low bit-rate services (eg Radio Paradise, played through the MuSo) can sound absolutely dreadful when the album is purchased (on either CD or vinyl). I have a number of such pieces languoring in my racks.   

Thought it was just me..... but yes, it is rather strange that things often sound better on Radio Paradise compared to the 'real thing'.

My earlier (est) days of getting into music were with a QUAD 22 valve system at home. My job then was as a sales rep in a Mk 1 Cortina and AM only radio. It had a heater but only rubber floor mats,

I found either way of listening equally acceptable but no prizes for guessing which I preferred.

Ultimately, if you listen to the hi-fi aspect only it, for me, looses its special  quality. You play a disc or CD which you always loved the sound it made last time and it was really great . This time it dos'nt sound as good as before.

However, I like a good number of recordings of a favourite piece as they will have a different acoustic each time. Hope I hav'nt stopped listening to the music.

So music first and sound second.

Douglas.

"For me listening to music is an event and not a casual thing to do.  Low quality, background music all day or a few evenings and weekends with my high quality system?  High quality every time for me"

Once again, you are conflating two things that are not logically connected. I wasn't talking about background music, and as has been discussed multiple times on this forum, it is sad what is happening to music listening in the modern day, which may, in fact, lead to the death of hifi as we've known it. People seldom sit down and only listen to music any more, and that partly explains that the average age on the forum is probably around 50 years old. (I'm always delighted to see a younger person on here.) And no, nothing wrong with upgrading or tweaking. In fact, nothing wrong with being a hifi geek who loves the kit more than music - it's just a completely different hobby. (And one I honestly do not understand...but horses for courses.)

But would you keep the system and have, say, only 50 albums (irrespective of format)? Or would you rather have a $1,000 system (my NAD-based bedroom system cost me about that) and 1,000 albums and/or one of the music services where you can get almost anything?

I am definitely an "active" listener like yourself, and could do that with my lesser system were I forced to for one reason or another. The reason I have a hifi is because of music. I think it begs the obvious that I prefer hifi sound when I can get it, otherwise I wouldn't have sunk the many thousands of dollars I have into the current system and the many iterations I have had since I bought my first "real" stereo at Crazy Eddie's in Brooklyn back in 1977.  Ironically, we both have fairly comparable systems, yours being able to play vinyl and your amp chain is what I would aim for if I went for higher box count. As I said, given a choice of lofi vs hifi, I would prefer hifi. (Again, why do we all spend stupid money on our systems?) But the reason (for me, anyway) is music, not hifi.

Music existed and was loved for centuries before hifi even existed.

i have seen this question on a number of forums recently

to me it's the music with out question, and getting more music for me is the key, and the only way of doing this is to improve the system you are playing it on well so be it

having had HIFi in my life since I was in my late teens it's been a journey and now I can afford a nice system to play the music on that give me more pleasure and for me that's it

ENJOY THE MUSIC - PEROID!!