Are you happy with your Nd555

MDS posted:

 

Yep. I've been to many concerts, gigs where the sound has been a bit coarse but that hasn't got in the way of enjoying the music so hearing that at home can be authentic. Anyway, presenting recorded music in a way that gives the listener enjoyment is surely the goal.  I think Naim does that pretty well. I've heard many very expensive systems that are impressively smooth but after that initial impression I find them unmoving emotionally.  I don't want to be bored when I listen to my music.  

And the same goes for you.

Max

tonycurran1 posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

I think you will find enough testomonies of how much people like it in the ND555 impressions thread. And the ones not happy will not dare to post, as they are too ashamed of spending so much money to be dissatisfied 

Hi Bert you are right when you say some if not a lot of members would not share their thoughts regarding any Naim product on this forum

my month old 552 pre lost a channel I posted on here don’t worry about it after all it only cost £20000

i then had 4 enjoyably days with the NDS555 then it stopped playing

dont worry about it after all it’s only about £21000

then my dealer installed the NDX2 no sound don’t worry about it 

it must be stacic or your mains

i then made a knee jerk reaction and borrow ML pre streamer and mono blocks which I hated

i now have Chord Dave and their new M Scaler using Cyrus X just to stream to the Dac

best sound I have had since my days of having Linn Lp12

members won’t post their Naim woes on here due to certain members who talk a load of rubbish when they have a keyboard in front of them

sad thing is they have not even heard a Chord Dave with Hugo MScaler because it does not have a  green Naim badge on the front

it is sad as they are wearing blinkers and are afraid to listen just in case it sounds better.

Your experience was the most terrible I have every read about on this forum, and I feel very sorry for you. And indeed it doesn’t get compensated by any member who never had any issue with Naim. I also remember when I got the new Ndac years ago tha5 it was exchanged in one day by another because it was broke almost from the beginning. Not something which should happen at these price points. 

I hope you will have many years of problem free enjoyment from your Chord stuff.

Massimo Bertola posted:

MDS posted:

 

Yep. I've been to many concerts, gigs where the sound has been a bit coarse but that hasn't got in the way of enjoying the music so hearing that at home can be authentic. Anyway, presenting recorded music in a way that gives the listener enjoyment is surely the goal.  I think Naim does that pretty well. I've heard many very expensive systems that are impressively smooth but after that initial impression I find them unmoving emotionally.  I don't want to be bored when I listen to my music.  

And the same goes for you.

Max

Max - please don't be offended. I was not disagreeing with you but simply declaring that I have embraced that characteristic of Naim's sound-signature.

Mike 

Massimo Bertola posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay I attended the demo at Cymbiosis a couple of weeks back.  It’s a superb piece of kit no doubt but before purchasing I would need to be convinced that the treble is not a tad harsh?

Regards,

Lindsay

Lindsay,

you'll never sort that. Every piece of Naim equipment has a point (in volume, or frequency, or type of music or song) where it becomes a tad coarse – or harsh, as you say. It is the brand signature, is necessary to the feeling of realism that sometimes strikes you with their gear, but you cannot take it away from their sound. Look at all the discussions, those about cables, about anything: 98% of them, be the poster aware of it or not, are about the fact that Naim sounds great but at the expense of some coarseness. In fact, all the shamefully costly ultra high end audio I have heard in my life tries to sound realistic and smooth, which is not doable and is useless. One must know that before buying Naim: he/she will have great moments of realism and foot tapping, but sooner or later a few seconds – or minutes – of music will sound too loud (no matter what the position of the pot), or not enough refined in the top end. Unavoidable.

The efforts that Naim has done to correct this haven't taken the brand very far: the SuperUniti was unlistenable, and all the new versions I have heard of renewed gear (which I have heard, all of them, starting when they changed the CD5x into the XS), like the XS2 and the SN2 have been relative failures, because you can take Naim out of a mild coarseness (changing brand, for example, or spoiling it all with cables), but you can't take mild coarseness from Naim – it won't be a Naim anymore. To  my ears, whoever prefers a NaitXS2 or a SN2 to their originals, can't hear properly or is not made for Naim or is in malafede. 

I have tried hard: 4 or 5 CDX2s, a number of XPSes one of which DR, lots of HiCaps, twice the SBLs and five times the N-Sats, all amps from Nait to 282/SC/250 (safe the NAP100), all sources from CD5i to CDS3: it is either Naim or bore. You have to choose, there's no other option. 20 months ago I swapped 282/SC/250 for a Luxman L590ax, it must have played for 10 hours. I started therapy and patiently began all over again.

Then, let's face it: a thread on a 20,000 streamer with double ultra costly PSU has triggered 40 pages of discussions, and there's still someone who shyly admits he finds the ND555 not completely up to the price: I can't even imagine the level of detail it can reproduce, but I can imagine why someone is not convinced – everybody hoped the day would come when a sweet sounding, yet perfectly Naim voiced piece of equipment would pop up. It is impossible. Naim is great, but it's either realism with some shouting, or it is domestic HiFi and the ghost of boredom lurking somewhere in the dark living room. Shall we talk about all those who have surrendered to the last resource of sticking a pair of Harbeths to their Naim amp? Even my Ovator S-400s – smart units, very very smart – have something in the BMR which, at moments, can be less airy and mannered than necessary.

Just my opinion, but I was caught like a fool in reading the same bullshit for the 10,000th time here, and I decided to answer to you because I thought I saw something in your post that sounded sadly familiar.

Best

Max

Max,

Don't know what to say. Thanks!

I’m not sure that revealing more details of Dark Side of the Bloody Moon, which people have heard for the umpteenth time is any indication of whether something is any good. The question is surely whether it sounds engaging and real, and whether you can listen for hours on end. It’s the old HiFi versus music issue. 

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m not sure that revealing more details of Dark Side of the Bloody Moon, which people have heard for the umpteenth time is any indication of whether something is any good. The question is surely whether it sounds engaging and real, and whether you can listen for hours on end. It’s the old HiFi versus music issue. 

Well done - captured it in a nutshell! I hate to say it, but there’s been more bullshit written on the ND555 thread than got flushed out of the Augean stables.

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m not sure that revealing more details of Dark Side of the Bloody Moon, which people have heard for the umpteenth time is any indication of whether something is any good. The question is surely whether it sounds engaging and real, and whether you can listen for hours on end. It’s the old HiFi versus music issue. 

I you are referring to my post.....it was Wish you we’re here.....a totally different album. And getting more detail that I have never heard engaged me......and got me back to the dealer for my own demo on my own terms. 

Ooohh…I hope it is not jealousy I sense creeping into this thread.

To those who are loving their new ND555s, please keep posting. I am enjoying this thread.

It has to be said................blimey

Not to be an ass, but I only wanted to hear from those who have purchased a nd555, not the haters. 

Timmo1341 posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m not sure that revealing more details of Dark Side of the Bloody Moon, which people have heard for the umpteenth time is any indication of whether something is any good. The question is surely whether it sounds engaging and real, and whether you can listen for hours on end. It’s the old HiFi versus music issue. 

Well done - captured it in a nutshell! I hate to say it, but there’s been more bullshit written on the ND555 thread than got flushed out of the Augean stables.

Resistance is futile !

Is it a full moon in England again?

Mike Sullivan posted:

Is it a full moon in England again?

It’s all about silver bullets 

Zackwater posted:

Not to be an ass, but I only wanted to hear from those who have purchased a nd555, not the haters. 

Surely everyone’s opinion is valid here. Who, once having dropped £20k is going to give a negative opinion. I’ve heard and enjoyed the ND555 and have no criticism of it. My only point was that revealing new detail in music isn’t really what’s important, it’s about the emotional connection. To me anyway. Different strokes for different folks. As to the jealousy point, or that of full moons, I’ve no idea what is meant. 

Having heard the ND555 over 4days it sounds amazing

a bit more QA from Naim wont go a miss.

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m not sure that revealing more details of Dark Side of the Bloody Moon, which people have heard for the umpteenth time is any indication of whether something is any good. The question is surely whether it sounds engaging and real, and whether you can listen for hours on end. It’s the old HiFi versus music issue. 

Nuance surely help you connect emotionally?

Not that i've heard an ND555, but talking more detail than you can shake a stick at, Chord dacs are about as emotionally disconnected as it gets. Sterile beyond belief. 

How do you judge the SQ of a new toy? Detail? Emotional connection? Added tone, timbre? Music that makes more 'sense'? Extension at the extremes and control/definition across the frequency spectrum? Voices sounding like human beings and instruments sounding like…err… real instruments in your front room?

For me the emotional connection is very important but not at the exclusion of other things. The sheer power of a performance, poignant lyrics, the skill and talent of a musician or singer can bring that emotional connection by itself, even from an average hifi system, but there must be something else, surely, to lift a new toy above the ordinary. I can be blown away when I hear a piano emanating from my speakers that actually sounds like a real piano played by a real person in front of me. And that is not an easy trick to pull off with a few boxes of components and wires. Believe me. For me, less (well delivered) is always more.

The ND555 is being spoken about in terms of the best source Naim have ever produced. They should be congratulated for that and we as music lovers should welcome a real shift in the boundaries of in-home music reproduction. Yes, all views must be heard in this place, and great sources from other manufacturers are available. But let's discuss and celebrate what Naim have actually achieved here. British engineering, design and technology at its finest.

Disclaimer: The above comments are in the author's humblest opinion and should not be taken as a statement of fact. Other, contrary opinions are equally valid.

People seem to be confusing "Detail" with "Resolution". 

In my view, greater detail and greater emotional connection are utterly inseparable. Anything that manages to connect your more to the music on any level must derive from somewhere.

The thing is, "detail" here covers temporal resolution, tonal accuracy and amplitude. What one component might lack in temporal resolution it may make up for in the other two but that is still "detail".

If, on the other hand, you are getting less temporal resolution, less tonal accuracy, and poorer reproduction of the dynamic range, and yet still claiming to get more emotionally connected to the music, then you are kidding yourself. 

What most people find problematic about things they describe as more detailed but less musical, is in fact a deviation from amplitude on sample groups in the time domain to exaggerate sounds. This deviation to exaggerate things (giving the illusion of detail) is in fact less detail (or less fidelity) in the amplitude and/or frequency domain.

gary yeowell posted:

Not that i've heard an ND555, but talking more detail than you can shake a stick at, Chord dacs are about as emotionally disconnected as it gets. Sterile beyond belief. 

Absolutely not! In fact, quite the opposite. Maybe it's a system thing, but emotional engagement's a big thing with me and in my music system, a Chord DAC was better musically than my then CD555. Sterile's the last word I'd associate with them.

Dealers would not bother offering a wide range of products if the customer base all found the same manufacturer delivered the right performance for everyone wether that’s detail, emotion etc, both are important. So yes I think it’s a system thing based on personal preferences. I have heard Chord sound great and poor, also Naim, the NDX2 into a 552 /300 with PMC 25.26.......sounded underwhelming. It’s what a good dealer does, provide the kit and time to get us to where we want to be within our budget.

Massimo Bertola posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay I attended the demo at Cymbiosis a couple of weeks back.  It’s a superb piece of kit no doubt but before purchasing I would need to be convinced that the treble is not a tad harsh?

Regards,

Lindsay

Lindsay,

you'll never sort that. Every piece of Naim equipment has a point (in volume, or frequency, or type of music or song) where it becomes a tad coarse – or harsh, as you say. It is the brand signature, is necessary to the feeling of realism that sometimes strikes you with their gear, but you cannot take it away from their sound. Look at all the discussions, those about cables, about anything: 98% of them, be the poster aware of it or not, are about the fact that Naim sounds great but at the expense of some coarseness. In fact, all the shamefully costly ultra high end audio I have heard in my life tries to sound realistic and smooth, which is not doable and is useless. One must know that before buying Naim: he/she will have great moments of realism and foot tapping, but sooner or later a few seconds – or minutes – of music will sound too loud (no matter what the position of the pot), or not enough refined in the top end. Unavoidable.

The efforts that Naim has done to correct this haven't taken the brand very far: the SuperUniti was unlistenable, and all the new versions I have heard of renewed gear (which I have heard, all of them, starting when they changed the CD5x into the XS), like the XS2 and the SN2 have been relative failures, because you can take Naim out of a mild coarseness (changing brand, for example, or spoiling it all with cables), but you can't take mild coarseness from Naim – it won't be a Naim anymore. To  my ears, whoever prefers a NaitXS2 or a SN2 to their originals, can't hear properly or is not made for Naim or is in malafede. 

I have tried hard: 4 or 5 CDX2s, a number of XPSes one of which DR, lots of HiCaps, twice the SBLs and five times the N-Sats, all amps from Nait to 282/SC/250 (safe the NAP100), all sources from CD5i to CDS3: it is either Naim or bore. You have to choose, there's no other option. 20 months ago I swapped 282/SC/250 for a Luxman L590ax, it must have played for 10 hours. I started therapy and patiently began all over again.

Then, let's face it: a thread on a 20,000 streamer with double ultra costly PSU has triggered 40 pages of discussions, and there's still someone who shyly admits he finds the ND555 not completely up to the price: I can't even imagine the level of detail it can reproduce, but I can imagine why someone is not convinced – everybody hoped the day would come when a sweet sounding, yet perfectly Naim voiced piece of equipment would pop up. It is impossible. Naim is great, but it's either realism with some shouting, or it is domestic HiFi and the ghost of boredom lurking somewhere in the dark living room. Shall we talk about all those who have surrendered to the last resource of sticking a pair of Harbeths to their Naim amp? Even my Ovator S-400s – smart units, very very smart – have something in the BMR which, at moments, can be less airy and mannered than necessary.

Just my opinion, but I was caught like a fool in reading the same bullshit for the 10,000th time here, and I decided to answer to you because I thought I saw something in your post that sounded sadly familiar.

Best

Max

I simply cannot agree - with this - obviously you are entirely entitled to your point of view - the only time I had a bad time with Naim - is with using the Hi Line interconnect - for me that was all bad - between NDS and 552/500. I have used Nait 5Si an excellent amp, 272 fantastic, NAP250 & DR both very good and finally NAP500 stunning...finally Dr-ed even better!

My comment regarding Naim - generally the sonic presentation - takes no prisoners (particularly the 552) and in my view it is absolutely necessary to convey what is rhythmically contained  - consequently speaker choice and room are very critical. Naim I think are aware of this - which is why they are strong proponents of dealer support and careful demo's.

My system - has an LP12 Ittok, with AT0C7 via a stageline - to my ears the NDS is far superior - track for track LP v flac 16/44. The LP is very nice open and natural - slightly laid back - but the NDS is like the studio master in comparison - illuminated, dynamic and full of detail - in my system.

In your defense I will sum up - I don't think Naim will suit everybody - but it will probably suit most - and Naim know that. The ND555 is not a value product - and can never be justified on a purely financial basis, but on a sonic basis it is on the money and again Naim know that. If you don't like the ND555 its fine - there are other choices. 

Regarding the NAP250 - it is a good amp - but it has it's limitations - I found it quite sensitive to speaker choice. 

hungryhalibut posted:

As to the jealousy point, or that of full moons, I’ve no idea what is meant. 

Simply an observation that people's energy can become a little excited during a full moon. Largely due to the increased gravitational effect on water in one's body, and hence brain/mind, along with other more subtle esoteric effects. Not dissimilar to the emotional effects of well conveyed music, as it happens.

I still don’t have a clue about what most on here are talking about. Never having had a rock band, full orchestra or, come to that, a solo female recording artist with full backing ensemble in my lounge I wouldn’t  really have any idea as to how close any piece of kit gets to reproducing the source. I’ve been to a lot of live gigs, but I definitely want better quality (to my ears) reproduction than I heard at 99% of them (atmosphere is an entirely seperate issue). Whether or not my system is capable of faithfully reproducing the gun shot or the breaking bottle from Dire Straits’ track Private Investigations is a matter of supreme unimportance to me - they add not a jot or iota to the musical experience.

I still think HH got to the heart of it - to some people the highest possible fidelity of reproduction is the most important thing, to others it’s all about the music regardless of whether it’s played on a Sonos (or MuSo) or a Statement. Whilst it’s great fun to read of people’s differing takes on pieces of kit, what grates is the judgemental attitude that creeps into some threads. Neither approach is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ - just different, and that is surely what we should be celebrating.

We are all fortunate in owning whatever system we have. If some aspire to always having the latest and best ‘cutting edge’, be it amp, streamer, cable, whatever then that’s fine. What seems to be overlooked is that in virtually every sector there is a risk to being an early adopter (my brother spent a lot of money on one of the first BMW M.5s some years ago, and it spent more of the first 12 months in the workshop than on the road!).  I, for one, am glad there are those amongst us who are willing to fork out big bucks on the ND555s and similar, as I and many others will benefit in years to come via the trickle down of new technology to more main stream devices.

gary yeowell posted:

Not that i've heard an ND555, but talking more detail than you can shake a stick at, Chord dacs are about as emotionally disconnected as it gets. Sterile beyond belief. 

It's only your opinion.

My experience is the exact opposite. A Chord DAC will render the emotional connection and was designed exactly for that purpose.