Do you think Naim should (or could) retrofit Qobuz to the 272 with an update?

Qobuz on the new range  is a non starter for me. Other apps work perfectly with Chromecast, it just seems to be Qobuz that is an issue. UPnP is also not gapless which is equally as frustrating so the bubbleupnp option is also a non starter. Why Naim could not release a standard implementation of upnp is beyond me rather than force users to user their own awful app to stream gapless.

I am using a Sonos base connected to my NDS to listen to Qobuz. I am not sure it is the best. I have ordered a ND555 and am wondering what's the best solution to listen to Qobuz with th ND555.

Cheers,

Michel

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Qobuz on the new range  is a non starter for me. Other apps work perfectly with Chromecast, it just seems to be Qobuz that is an issue. UPnP is also not gapless which is equally as frustrating so the bubbleupnp option is also a non starter. Why Naim could not release a standard implementation of upnp is beyond me rather than force users to user their own awful app to stream gapless.

I tend to agree, I think it's a shame users are in a position where they have to try all manner of 3rd party 'patches/workarounds' (and many thanks to the developers who provide such things for free) to try to get things like gapless to work properly, and even then they seem to fail with newer streamers due to Naim not using 'deprecated' functions to get the next track - whether they are deprecated or simply not best practice if they work as they did on older streamers that's surely better than not working at all.

Alley Cat posted:

...and unfortunately Chromecast fails miserably  - no gapless, and since Qobuz App updates a few months ago each track in an album seems to glitch by repeating from the start after 2-3 seconds of playback on my Nova.  No idea if it's a Niam or Qobuz issue but it's beyond frustrating.

I can confirm this still and again from my side: Actual tested with IOS 12.1 from Iphone and IPad with no difference for this issue for months! And of course: This is a shame for NAIM for a 5k EUR Device like the Nova if it is a problem on their Chromecast Implementation of the device. And it looks like...

As a repetition: Streaming from devices using Chromecast without sending cover pictures to the Nova display seemed to be not affected: As an example the Qobuz app running under Mac OS from a powerbook is working well without gaps and glitches. As working as a tech lead and Java developer in my day job I would take this as a serious hint for the colleagues at the dev team at Naim. So the timing of the audio glitch correlates with the update of the build in Nova display.

And to end up with confusing hints in this chat: I totally understand and agree upon with NAIM to support only more or less established industry standards for streaming in the future like Chromecast for the Nova or other NAIM devices. But that means also to take the support for this protocols serious!

Does anyone have experiences with using actual android tablets using the Qobuz app with Chromecast protocol with HighRes streaming (and cover picture updates) ?

Is there a way to avoid the update of cover pictures on the Nova display? (By the way: compared to the quality of actual tabled screens the NAIM display for covers is a joke and awful enough to avoid this at all. And who is not using these days tablet devices as handy "remote controls" for streaming providers?)

Best wishes and still impatient for a software update solving this issue!

Michael

So if I buy a QNAP does it come with a free copy of dbPoweramp and Asset?

Can I only load dbPoweramp and Asset onto my 'laptop with Windows 10'? Or also to an iPad?

Will dbPoweramp and Asset somehow connect with the Naim app? Or are they totally separate things?

You have to buy them. Have a look at the Illustrate website, which will explain what to get. The Naim app will control Asset happily. Asset is a server, just like Minim or indeed the server software on Naim’s Core. 

dBpoweramp is the CD ripper  & it needs to be installed on your Windows-10 laptop,  its completely separate & not linked to Asset or the iPad.

Asset UPnP is installed on the NAS server & is discovered, browsed & controlled by the iPad thats been loaded with the Naim app,   it is discovered (seen) when you activate the app UPnP icon.

Thanks chaps - so I'm going to take a morning off work next week, download the free version of dbPoweramp and the Asset for Windows free trial software; rip a few CDs; try playing files into the 272 via the 272 USB slot; try local streaming to the 272 via Asset; compare these to the same tracks via the CD player and Tidal. I think this will help me decide whether to get a QNAP and get fully into local streaming. At least it will allow me see if I like the software. Although, I guess it won't tell me how good the QNAP would be, as I will still be missing the first stage of processing the stored FLAC flies into wav before they enter the 272.

I also have a large capacity external HDD which I could plug into the USB slot on the front of the 272. Would it be worth trying that or would that not work for some reason?

JimDog posted:

Thanks chaps - so I'm going to take a morning off work next week, download the free version of dbPoweramp and the Asset for Windows free trial software; rip a few CDs; try playing files into the 272 via the 272 USB slot; try local streaming to the 272 via Asset; compare these to the same tracks via the CD player and Tidal. I think this will help me decide whether to get a QNAP and get fully into local streaming. At least it will allow me see if I like the software. Although, I guess it won't tell me how good the QNAP would be, as I will still be missing the first stage of processing the stored FLAC flies into wav before they enter the 272.

I also have a large capacity external HDD which I could plug into the USB slot on the front of the 272. Would it be worth trying that or would that not work for some reason?

I imagine the Windows version of Asset can transcode FLAC to WAV as well as the QNAP version, in which case you should still be able to test this option. 

The streamer USB inputs do not officially support large hard drives, just USB sticks and iOS devices. A few people have reported here that they worked OK though, so give it a try. It should be formatted to Fat32.

The free version of Asset for Windows will transcode from FLAC to WAV.

I am very happy with my QNAP but find Tidal just as good as local streaming.

Oops - cross posted with Chris!

QNAP/Asset works great for me. dBPoweramp rips my CDs quickly and easily.  ☺

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Qobuz on the new range  is a non starter for me. Other apps work perfectly with Chromecast, it just seems to be Qobuz that is an issue. UPnP is also not gapless which is equally as frustrating so the bubbleupnp option is also a non starter. Why Naim could not release a standard implementation of upnp is beyond me rather than force users to user their own awful app to stream gapless.

I understand Naim developers are looking into the gapless issue with the new streamers and may have found a fix.. if so the BubbleUPnP Qobuz/Tidal Server proxy should shortly provide local streaming / Qobuz equivalence on the new streamers just like it currently does on the old....

Simon - sorry I'm being thick, but can you explain this:

"the BubbleUPnP Qobuz/Tidal Server proxy should shortly provide local streaming / Qobuz equivalence on the new streamers just like it currently does on the old"

Pev - that's interesting.

If Tidal is just as good as local streaming, then why do I bother to organize local streaming? Only if I have a lot of CDs that are not on Tidal (or have worse versions on Tidal).

Actually, I've come to like Tidal significantly more as I've explored it a lot more over the past month. It is far from perfect, but it has a lot of things I like with good SQ.

At a guess I'd say that probably 80% of my CDs are on Tidal.

So maybe I should 'keep calm and carry on streaming'?

(Sell my CD player as well as my old pre-amp, and invest in cables/speakers instead?)

I stream Tidal via BubbleUPnP server to an ND5XS/nDAC/XPS. Sounds really good ????

It's nice to own the CD though and cheap as chips these days. And of course there is Hires. I've just bought "Buddy Guy - The Blues Are Alive and Well" as 24/96 download based on listening on Tidal this evening.

JimDog posted:

Pev - that's interesting.

If Tidal is just as good as local streaming, then why do I bother to organize local streaming? Only if I have a lot of CDs that are not on Tidal (or have worse versions on Tidal).

 

It seems that the quality of Tidal versus local streaming varies according to your system. Some people report Tidal as sounding much worse whereas in my system and in many others they are indistinguishable. If you are as lucky as I am then streaming is probably the way to go - I haven't bought a CD in years.

For other people streaming will never do as either they like to own things or they fear streaming will somehow disappear leaving us without any music. Only you can make this decision but there are several long threads on the topic in which the arguments are fully aired.

JimDog posted:

Simon - sorry I'm being thick, but can you explain this:

"the BubbleUPnP Qobuz/Tidal Server proxy should shortly provide local streaming / Qobuz equivalence on the new streamers just like it currently does on the old"

Hi JimDog, put simply running BubbleUPnP Server to stream Qobuz, converts Qobuz to make it appear effectively like local NAS sourced streams... therefore with transcoding enabled, for the same master there is no effective difference, and the underlying network transport dynamics which can affect the streamer ‘sound’ become the same for Qobuz and locally sourced media.. because as far as the streamer is concerned Qobuz becomes locally sourced media using this proxy method.

Right now the legacy streamers can handle pushed gapless streams via UPnP, which is a technique Bubble UPnP uses.. ie Qobuz is gapless this way. Unfortunaly the new architecture streamers don’t support this functionality at present, but Naim developers are aware and are working on releasing a fix so I understand.

I’ve been pleasantly surprised how good Tidal Hi Fi is on my Nova. Not quite CD rip quality via my Core. But good enough that I would trial music on Tidal and only buy CD for high quality recordings that I’ll listen to regularly. If I was younger and starting afresh, I’d say Tidal is good enough for a stand-alone source for the cost.