NDX2 + NDAC

Many thanks for all of the helpful replies.

On reflection and after all of the responses I think I will do the following:

My preference, as picked out by an earlier poster, is to have an all Naim solution. It just feels right.

I will take delivery of the NDX2. It is ordered and on its way. I’ll bench test the NDX2 with XPS2DR against the NDX2/NDAC powered by the XPS2DR. As seems likely from the general feedback, the NDX2 with XPS2DR will win the day. If this is the case the NDAC will be sold. It was never my intention to go for the maximum box count. All I was keen to ascertain was whether there were any SQ advantages.

This brings me on to the CD5XS. One of the earlier responders (Feeling_Zen) pointed out, the NDX2 does offer the ability of performing DAC duties for the CD5XS. Whilst initially thinking this might be a cop out, I do get NBPF’s viewpoint that moving to streaming with approximately 3,000 CD’s is going to be a long job. So to make sure I do the job properly I might buy myself some time and keep the CD5XS for a couple of months. The end goal is however a streaming solution, so the CD5XS will be sold eventually.

Thanks for everyone’s assistance.

Cheers

michael1702 posted:

nbpf posted:

michael1702 posted:

The Signature with the battery pack is definitely a significant upgrade to the DigiOne.  But the NDX2 is still better.

...

Is the NDX2 alone better than the Signature into the NDX2 or is it better than the Signature into the nDAC? Thanks, nbpf

The NDX2 (with XPS) is better than the Signature into the nDAC. Didn't try the Signature into the NDX2.

Thanks, I remember your report from the Allo Signature thread now! I assume the nDAC was also powered by the XPS.

nbpf posted:

michael1702 posted:

nbpf posted:

michael1702 posted:

The Signature with the battery pack is definitely a significant upgrade to the DigiOne.  But the NDX2 is still better.

...

Is the NDX2 alone better than the Signature into the NDX2 or is it better than the Signature into the nDAC? Thanks, nbpf

The NDX2 (with XPS) is better than the Signature into the nDAC. Didn't try the Signature into the NDX2.

Thanks, I remember your report from the Allo Signature thread now! I assume the nDAC was also powered by the XPS.

Yes,  you are right.

HamiltonNZ posted:

Many thanks for all of the helpful replies.

On reflection and after all of the responses I think I will do the following:

My preference, as picked out by an earlier poster, is to have an all Naim solution. It just feels right.

I will take delivery of the NDX2. It is ordered and on its way. I’ll bench test the NDX2 with XPS2DR against the NDX2/NDAC powered by the XPS2DR. As seems likely from the general feedback, the NDX2 with XPS2DR will win the day. If this is the case the NDAC will be sold. It was never my intention to go for the maximum box count. All I was keen to ascertain was whether there were any SQ advantages.

This brings me on to the CD5XS. One of the earlier responders (Feeling_Zen) pointed out, the NDX2 does offer the ability of performing DAC duties for the CD5XS. Whilst initially thinking this might be a cop out, I do get NBPF’s viewpoint that moving to streaming with approximately 3,000 CD’s is going to be a long job. So to make sure I do the job properly I might buy myself some time and keep the CD5XS for a couple of months. The end goal is however a streaming solution, so the CD5XS will be sold eventually.

Thanks for everyone’s assistance.

Cheers

Congratulations! You will be able to connect the CD5XS to the NDX2 and select the SPDIF input on the NDX2.This way you will use the NDX2 as your current nDAC. If you do so, please report your findings!

The NDX2 has three inputs: Ethernet (wired and wireless), SPDIF and USB. It can act as a UPnP server and thus make data stored on a USB drive available to other LAN network players and, of course, to itself. Just attach a USB drive to the NDX2's port and start the UPnP server on the device. As you rip more CDs and your music collection increases in size, you might want to run the UPnP server on a dedicated computer or NAS. But this can come later. The problem of moving to streaming is not so much ripping the CDs but get their metadata right. This is particularly time consuming for classical music collections. For basic guidelines, check the MinimServer documentation and forum. There are a number of threads specifically devoted to the problem of tagging and organizing large collections. Enjoy your new NDX2! 

Hi HamiltonNZ,

I also have a CD5XS and Uniti Core which I currently use with nDAC (both via SPDIF)  powered by 555PSDR.  I too have an NDX2 on order as I’m keen to use the Core via uPnP and feed the CD5XS to the SPDIF. I really like the organic sound of the nDAC so I’m interested to hear how the NDX2 DAC compares. Last week I heard the NDX2 vs nDAC at my dealers using Tidal with both powered by 555PSDR. It was too close to call between them so I’ll see if I can arrange a home demo for an extended listen with the Core and CD5XS.

This is all very interesting... I’m considering adding a dac to my ND5XS/XP5XS as a step improvement.

Maybe a Hugo, maybe an NDAC...

Perhaps save up the piastres and be patient for a s/h NDX/XPS.

Although, I’ve absolutely no idea what  “sounds more refined.” is supposed to mean. ????

I would be cautious... I was told at Naim that on the new Naim streamers, little is done to clean up the SPDIF out compared to the legacy streamers where it is controlled by the DSP chip. This might have been mis information... but I would check first.

Erm... isn’t the NDX a ‘legacy’ product?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I would be cautious... I was told at Naim that on the new Naim streamers, little is done to clean up the SPDIF out compared to the legacy streamers where it is controlled by the DSP chip. This might have been mis information... but I would check first.

Interesting - there's something in the ND555 blurb about the SPDIF out being for use with AV systems, and best disabled for optimum sound quality, which doesn't make it sound like it's a high priority. The block diagram for the NDX shows a buffer on the SPDIF out, whereas for the ND555, it doesn't. Perhaps that means that NDAC2 is not in the pipeline?

bongoman posted:

Hi HamiltonNZ,

I also have a CD5XS and Uniti Core which I currently use with nDAC (both via SPDIF)  powered by 555PSDR.  I too have an NDX2 on order as I’m keen to use the Core via uPnP and feed the CD5XS to the SPDIF. I really like the organic sound of the nDAC so I’m interested to hear how the NDX2 DAC compares. Last week I heard the NDX2 vs nDAC at my dealers using Tidal with both powered by 555PSDR. It was too close to call between them so I’ll see if I can arrange a home demo for an extended listen with the Core and CD5XS.

I am looking forward to read your findings!

I would have argued that the crucial test is NDX2 alone vs. NDX2 into DAC, with both the NDX2 and the DAC powered by 555PSDR.

On the other hand, if the SPDIF output of the NDX2 turns out to be a low quality output (in comparison, for instance, with the SPDIF output of the NDX) then such a test would be irrelevant.

NBPF, I would seriously doubt if the s/pdif was of a "low quality" - what would be the point? Knowing Naim, there would no point in having it otherwise and certainly no point at all in going for a BNC connector rather than an RCA phono.

Richard Dane posted:

NBPF, I would seriously doubt if the s/pdif was of a "low quality" - what would be the point? Knowing Naim, there would no point in having it otherwise and certainly no point at all in going for a BNC connector rather than an RCA phono.

Much as one could cook up a conspiracy theory about Naim thwarting those prople who like to use Chord DACs, it does seem a little unlike Naim to put in a low quality output, especially on the ND555. Time will tell! 

By the way, is it significantly more expensive to use BNCs rather than RCSs?

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I would be cautious... I was told at Naim that on the new Naim streamers, little is done to clean up the SPDIF out compared to the legacy streamers where it is controlled by the DSP chip. This might have been mis information... but I would check first.

Interesting - there's something in the ND555 blurb about the SPDIF out being for use with AV systems, and best disabled for optimum sound quality, which doesn't make it sound like it's a high priority. The block diagram for the NDX shows a buffer on the SPDIF out, whereas for the ND555, it doesn't. Perhaps that means that NDAC2 is not in the pipeline?

That's well possible! The perspective of a DAC2 would be for me a major motivation for investing in a Naim power supply and in better interconnects. As long as it is not clear that there wil be a DAC2, I am postponing such investments. If it turns out that there will be no DAC2, I can use those funds to buy a very good non-Naim DAC.    

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I would be cautious... I was told at Naim that on the new Naim streamers, little is done to clean up the SPDIF out compared to the legacy streamers where it is controlled by the DSP chip. This might have been mis information... but I would check first.

Interesting - there's something in the ND555 blurb about the SPDIF out being for use with AV systems, and best disabled for optimum sound quality, which doesn't make it sound like it's a high priority. The block diagram for the NDX shows a buffer on the SPDIF out, whereas for the ND555, it doesn't. Perhaps that means that NDAC2 is not in the pipeline?

When installing my nd555 dealer only activated those input/ outputs that I was going to use. I did activate automation to 252 in the knowledge that it does degrade the sound apparently. I will revisit this once it’s all settled in.

Richard Dane posted:

NBPF, I would seriously doubt if the s/pdif was of a "low quality" - what would be the point? Knowing Naim, there would no point in having it otherwise and certainly no point at all in going for a BNC connector rather than an RCA phono.

As I made clear in my post, "low" in "low quality" is meant in comparison with, e.g., the S/PDIF output of the NDX.

The NDX's S/PDIF output has been successfully used to feed high quality DACs. For instance, nDAC+555PS or Chord Hugo. Thus, the S/PDIF output of the NDX is a kind of "reference" S/PDIF output for many Naim users.

If the S/PDIF output of the NDX2 would turn out to be less good than the one of the NDX, the test that I was suggesting (NDX2 alone vs. NDX2 > S/PDIF > nDAC) would be irrelevant.

The possibility that the S/PDIF output of the NDX2 could be less good than the one of the NDX was raised in previous posts.

I have it on good authority - from designer Steve Sells - that the s/pdif outputs on the new streamers are at least as high a quality as the outgoing streamers, both generated in the SHARC using the same algorithms. 

It's only referred to as for "AV" as it's extremely doubtful anyone would put another DAC on the end of the ND555.  It is there however, just in case someone needs it for AV or some other purpose.  Steve goes on to say "We switch it off so that we minimise any RF noise in the product that is not needed to make the juicy analogue sound. – as per all our other S/PDIF implementations".

Richard Dane posted:

I have it on good authority - from designer Steve Sells - that the s/pdif outputs on the new streamers are at least as high a quality as the outgoing streamers, both generated in the SHARC using the same algorithms. 

It's only referred to as for "AV" as it's extremely doubtful anyone would put another DAC on the end of the ND555.  It is there however, just in case someone needs it for AV or some other purpose.  Steve goes on to say "We switch it off so that we minimise any RF noise in the product that is not needed to make the juicy analogue sound. – as per all our other S/PDIF implementations".

Great, thanks for the clarification! Thus, the NDX2 is an outstanding successor of the NDX not only as a streamer but also as a transport. Now the only missing link is ... a DAC2!

Thanks for that, Richard. I may yet upgrade my NDX to an ND5XS2!

Richard Dane posted:

I have it on good authority - from designer Steve Sells - that the s/pdif outputs on the new streamers are at least as high a quality as the outgoing streamers, both generated in the SHARC using the same algorithms. 

It's only referred to as for "AV" as it's extremely doubtful anyone would put another DAC on the end of the ND555.  It is there however, just in case someone needs it for AV or some other purpose.  Steve goes on to say "We switch it off so that we minimise any RF noise in the product that is not needed to make the juicy analogue sound. – as per all our other S/PDIF implementations".

Thanks for confirming... it did sound a bit suspect... it was all a bit new when I was at Naim last so perhaps a little bit of confusion...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I have it on good authority - from designer Steve Sells - that the s/pdif outputs on the new streamers are at least as high a quality as the outgoing streamers, both generated in the SHARC using the same algorithms. 

It's only referred to as for "AV" as it's extremely doubtful anyone would put another DAC on the end of the ND555.  It is there however, just in case someone needs it for AV or some other purpose.  Steve goes on to say "We switch it off so that we minimise any RF noise in the product that is not needed to make the juicy analogue sound. – as per all our other S/PDIF implementations".

Thanks for confirming... it did sound a bit suspect... it was all a bit new when I was at Naim last so perhaps a little bit of confusion...

Phew......the Naim team are still on the sound quality, whatever the customer buys it  for.

It is good to try the NDX2 with your nDAC.

Who knows, you may prefer the sound signature of the nDAC?

Keep is posted!