Innuos vs Melco in a Roon setup

I have an innuos zen and a nova so a similar signal path vis the bt home hub. I backed up my zen to a usb stick and played that direct into the nova and to h honest the difference was tiny..I was quite surprised..!

I do believe Roon frown upon bridging of ethernet that the Melco and Innuous offer on their dedicated ethernet to streamer port and don't really support that method . They prefer to go via router. 

T38.45 posted:

reading good feedbacks here about Melco ,that has dedicated LAN port for stramer and special components for perfect NAS serving and Innuos. So I noticed that Innuos has dedicated LAN port for connecting a streamer and the ability to run Roon server on it. So this could be a perfect set up for Roon fans like me. Had a chat with Melco, they will not run Roon server in near future... I think about this now:

ND555—dedicated LAN port——-Innuos/roon———LAN port——router———NAS

in my current set up, the music has to go from NAS through roon over router, back to router again to ND555. Hope to have a shorter path ...

Apart from that, Innuos  is much cheaper here????

Any thought?

 

Which Innuos? I recall one comparison of the Zenith with Melco N1a on the forum that concluded the former gave better sound quality, for local streaming.

The Zenith has the better power supply and the LAN port. Not sure if this setup would work, but I like the idea,,,

T38.45 posted:

reading good feedbacks here about Melco ,that has dedicated LAN port for stramer and special components for perfect NAS serving and Innuos. So I noticed that Innuos has dedicated LAN port for connecting a streamer and the ability to run Roon server on it. So this could be a perfect set up for Roon fans like me. Had a chat with Melco, they will not run Roon server in near future... I think about this now:

ND555—dedicated LAN port——-Innuos/roon———LAN port——router———NAS

in my current set up, the music has to go from NAS through roon over router, back to router again to ND555. Hope to have a shorter path ...

Apart from that, Innuos  is much cheaper here????

Any thought?

 

If you are looking for a server with dedicated LAN port that can run a Roon server, you could also consider the new Antipodes CX. Be aware that Innuos have announced a Mk3 series for their Zen mini, Zen and Zenith. They come with better power supplies and should be an improvement over the current Mk2 series.

Thanks- just checked their Web, it‘s announced Bit not available it seems...

T38.45 posted:

Thanks- just checked their Web, it‘s announced Bit not available it seems...

They have started to arrive at UK dealers looking at their recent social media posts

Had a call with Innuos 10min ago, MKIII is in production now, my suggested setup would work, they recommended Zenith ...guess I have to convince my wife again that this setup brings peace on earth :-)))

Looking to dip a toe in the water re high end streaming and confused re Roon server...

For the last 8 years (that long?), we have enjoyed a very simple, inexpensive, utterly reliable and enjoyable streaming system.
There's a Cat6 home network with a Netgear GS108 switch connecting a Synology DS716+ NAS to a 2011 mac mini running itunes with Bitperfect app to a Naim DAC V1, NAP140 and Proac DB1i speakers.  It has been our "toe in the water" prototype for streaming.

Now comes the big step, streaming on the big system, using Roon.  So we are after very good sound quality / an absence of electrical noise pollution.

The Naim ND555 is the obvious choice of streamer, especially as we already have the power supply.

But which server?  The Naim Core lacks Roon functionality.  Melco servers are highly rated yet can't act as a Roon server. The Antipodes CX looks ideal until you see the price; £7-8k with enough SSD in it and the obligatory P1 ripper.  The COO of Roon has also expressed concerns about it on another forum due to its use of an under-clocked Intel i5 processor.  Then there is the Roon Nucleus(+), which is an Intel NUC in a fanless case with a SMPS.  Having taken a great deal of care with power supply, the last thing we want is an electrically noisy computer with a cheap SMPS on the Naim hifi circuit.  Oh, and it will be located in the living room, so cannot be a home built PC.

All of which seems to leave us with an Innuous Zenith III or an Audiostore Prestige 2.  Is there another obvious choice that we have missed?

Recommendations very much appreciated.

Happy New Year everyone, FT

Regarding the Innuos Zenith, even if you feel your choice is limited that might not be negative as seem to recall some comparisons suggesting that it sounds better than Melco N1A (whatever version of Zenith was slightly up on price a couple of years ago).

As for other things to consider, there is the Allo DigiOne Signature - however it may be too ‘DIY’ and so not a realistic contender.

Foot tapper posted:

Looking to dip a toe in the water re high end streaming and confused re Roon server...

For the last 8 years (that long?), we have enjoyed a very simple, inexpensive, utterly reliable and enjoyable streaming system.
There's a Cat6 home network with a Netgear GS108 switch connecting a Synology DS716+ NAS to a 2011 mac mini running itunes with Bitperfect app to a Naim DAC V1, NAP140 and Proac DB1i speakers.  It has been our "toe in the water" prototype for streaming.

Now comes the big step, streaming on the big system, using Roon.  So we are after very good sound quality / an absence of electrical noise pollution.

The Naim ND555 is the obvious choice of streamer, especially as we already have the power supply.

But which server?  The Naim Core lacks Roon functionality.  Melco servers are highly rated yet can't act as a Roon server. The Antipodes CX looks ideal until you see the price; £7-8k with enough SSD in it and the obligatory P1 ripper.  The COO of Roon has also expressed concerns about it on another forum due to its use of an under-clocked Intel i5 processor.  Then there is the Roon Nucleus(+), which is an Intel NUC in a fanless case with a SMPS.  Having taken a great deal of care with power supply, the last thing we want is an electrically noisy computer with a cheap SMPS on the Naim hifi circuit.  Oh, and it will be located in the living room, so cannot be a home built PC.

All of which seems to leave us with an Innuous Zenith III or an Audiostore Prestige 2.  Is there another obvious choice that we have missed?

Recommendations very much appreciated.

Happy New Year everyone, FT

I think that you have more or less covered all the possibilities. Just two points come to my mind: 1) I would not consider a P1 ripper to be an obligatory choice if I had to go for a CX. On the contrary, I would try to keep ripping concerns and music serving concerns well separated and prefer ripping on a laptop or on desktop computer rather than inflating the functionalities of a music server. 2) you could gain some more hardware options (NUC, HHD instead of SSD) and possibly improve the sound quality of your system if you would not pretend to locate the Roon server in the living room.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Regarding the Innuos Zenith, even if you feel your choice is limited that might not be negative as seem to recall some comparisons suggesting that it sounds better than Melco N1A (whatever version of Zenith was slightly up on price a couple of years ago).

As for other things to consider, there is the Allo DigiOne Signature - however it may be too ‘DIY’ and so not a realistic contender.

 

The Allo DigiOne Signature can be deployed as a Roon endpoint, as a UPnP renderer or as a UPnP server + renderer solution but not as a Roon server. For that even a Raspberry 3 B+ is not powerful enough. The upcoming RPi 4 might perhaps change this situation.

Thank you IB.  The Allo DigiOne Signature looks like a remarkably cost effective streamer and Roon end point.
How can/do you make it work as a Roon core, as it is the server functionality that will be needed?

Best regards, FT

Personally these overpriced music servers are not needed and if you ask me are snake oil. I. Recently bought a custom built silent i7  pc and installed Roons operating system and it works flawlessly and sounds superb and  cost me £550 and is incredibly well built. The secret is  fanless, ssd and not have it near your audio system, and have endpoints to serve up your music over network. If your direct attaching the server to a DAC then LPS can possibly help but I would want full evidence myself that a £9000 server can really make it sound better. This guy Archimago speaks a lot of sense on such things.

Foot tapper posted:

Thank you IB.  The Allo DigiOne Signature looks like a remarkably cost effective streamer and Roon end point.
How can/do you make it work as a Roon core, as it is the server functionality that will be needed?

Best regards, FT

You cant it's a streamer only. You really need an i3 based system for Roon as the minimum.

Many thanks NBPF.  One option that could work from a purely electrical point of view would be to buy an Intel NUC, an SSD and a fanless case (I don't know who might do these apart from Roon itself with the Nucleus), then install this by the Netgear switch in the study.

The NUC would connect to the living room via the switch and an existing CAT6 cable but all the streamed video for Amazon Prime & Netgear TV services go down this same cable to the Samsung TV.  My concern then would be how to isolate the hifi from all the electrical interference on the general household network. 

This is why I wondered whether a dedicated music server with its own ethernet output socket (like Melco, Antipodes, Innuos and Audiostore) might be the way to go. At this point we are at or beyond the limit of my understanding of good communications network protocol.  Guidance most gratefully received from those who understand such matters better than I.

Best regards, FT

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Personally these overpriced music servers are not needed and if you ask me are snake oil. I. Recently bought a custom built silent i7  pc and installed Roons operating system and it works flawlessly and sounds superb and  cost me £550 and is incredibly well built. The secret is  fanless, ssd and not have it near your audio system, and have endpoints to serve up your music over network. If your direct attaching the server to a DAC then LPS can possibly help but I would want full evidence myself that a £9000 server can really make it sound better. This guy speaks a lot of sense on such things. http://archimago.blogspot.com/...berry-pi-3-b-as.html

Helpful, SPA.  Where do you buy a fanless NUC i7 kit, as assembly of such a simple kit is not off-putting. 
Are fears about electrical interference/noise from the general household network groundless?  If so, installation becomes simpler and a lot less expensive.

Best regards, FT

I didn't get a NUC myself did not see the extra cost as being justified and Roons ROCK os runs fine on it.  You can  order assembled NUC ones from quietpc, amongst others a lot of Ron users  are raving about the latest ones from German company Cirrus. The one I got was from Tranquil PC in Manchester they are built to order and look great as well, very good customer service and all the components are very well put together.

Also Roon do not recommend using the isolated ethernets on InnuOS or melco as they are network  bridging and can cause issues with Roons discovery as they can create a seperate subnet.

Running roon on Innuos Zen MK III, 8TB, for a few weeks now- it‘s simply superb! Roon runs very fast, very easy in terms of setup etc, almost zero noise, good SQ, highly recommend ! I‘m done with best-secrets LPS, super firmware tweaks and DIY things????. I love plug&play and enjoy music without audiophile hassle. 

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Foot tapper posted:

Thank you IB.  The Allo DigiOne Signature looks like a remarkably cost effective streamer and Roon end point.
How can/do you make it work as a Roon core, as it is the server functionality that will be needed?

Best regards, FT

You cant it's a streamer only. You really need an i3 based system for Roon as the minimum.

No, the RPi that hosts the Allo DigiOne Signature interface has more than enough power to run a UPnP server with transcoding duties, just not Roon. I run MinimServer (and upmpdcli as a UPnP renderer) on the RPi 3B+ that hosts my DigiOne Signature and the CPU load rarely goes above 20% even when transcoding 24bits/192kHz .flac files to .wav.

Foot tapper posted:

Many thanks NBPF.  One option that could work from a purely electrical point of view would be to buy an Intel NUC, an SSD and a fanless case (I don't know who might do these apart from Roon itself with the Nucleus), then install this by the Netgear switch in the study.

The NUC would connect to the living room via the switch and an existing CAT6 cable but all the streamed video for Amazon Prime & Netgear TV services go down this same cable to the Samsung TV.  My concern then would be how to isolate the hifi from all the electrical interference on the general household network. 

This is why I wondered whether a dedicated music server with its own ethernet output socket (like Melco, Antipodes, Innuos and Audiostore) might be the way to go. At this point we are at or beyond the limit of my understanding of good communications network protocol.  Guidance most gratefully received from those who understand such matters better than I.

Best regards, FT

My DigiOne Signature is directly connected to a Naim DAC via electrical S/PDIF (through a Naim DC-1 BNC-BNC cable) and in my standard setup the music files are stored on a 1TB Samsung T5 SSD connected to the RPi that hosts the Signature via USB which also runs a MinimServer instance.

Thus, no data (apart from the communication between control point and upmpdcli (also running on the RPi that hosts the Signature) takes place across the LAN at replay time.

But I have tried stopping the MinimServer instance that runs on the RPi that hosts the Signature and streaming via wireless from another RPi wired to the router. I could not hear differences in sound quality even when at the same time streaming DHC concerts through the same wireless to a Sony TV.

My take is that, if you invest some money and/or time in an endpoint/renderer solution that provides good isolation (like a DigiOne Signature or a dCS Network Bridge + DAC or a Naim NDX 2 or ND 555), then the choice of a server becomes less critical.

You could start with an inexpensive NUC or fitPC3 device (have a look at the Music Servers section on CA for information on specific NUC models that have been found to work particularly well) and compare them to commercial solutions like the Innuos, Antiposed, etc. later. When evaluating a server that is well isolated from your DAC (stage), sound quality is perhaps not the most relevant trait and reliability, flexibility, maintainability and interoperability are important aspects, in my view.       

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Personally these overpriced music servers are not needed and if you ask me are snake oil. I. Recently bought a custom built silent i7  pc and installed Roons operating system and it works flawlessly and sounds superb and  cost me £550 and is incredibly well built. The secret is  fanless, ssd and not have it near your audio system, and have endpoints to serve up your music over network. If your direct attaching the server to a DAC then LPS can possibly help but I would want full evidence myself that a £9000 server can really make it sound better. This guy Archimago speaks a lot of sense on such things.

A computer as a source can be good as long as you have exemplary RF rejection, whether incorporated in the DAC itself, or an in-line device. (I used to use a Gustard U12 before Changing to Dave DAC).

RF from the computer has little to do with fans, and a lot to do with the multiple ‘clocks’ on board, and whilst s linear PS will avoid the generation at that stage, and removal from the vicinity of other components can minimise induced RF if they are not well shielded, these do nothing about the inherent computer RF.

Of course, that is also true of specialised renderers as even though specifically designed to minimise RF generation they are computers at heart - except presumably also incorporating suitable filtering.