SOtM Trifecta

Mr Underhill posted:

RICHYH posted:

Thanks for the update Mr Underhill. I look forward to hearing more.

What power supply do you use the ultra trendy with?

Hi Rich,

You are right, in digital audio power is CRITICAL. In Naim-world this is mainly taken care of, at a price. I hope you don't mind if I answer this in a circuitous way.

When I got my microRendu I fell in love with the dynamics and the detail, but alongside it came EDGE. It took me 18 months to get that EDGE down to a level that I found acceptable; that is, only the edge that is in the recording!

.........
LT3045

These cards remove noise, and having tried one I fitted them everywhere I could. You need to make them up in a hobby box with a bit of soldering.
An R-Core + LT3045 became my PSU of choice, and enabled me to sell my LPS-1s without a worry.
This had a moderate positive effect.

So in answer to your question. My ultraRendu is powered by an R-Core 6A LPSU via two 7V1 1A LT3045 via PoE Ibra CAT7 cables.

M

Interesting you mention these LT3045. The HDPlex 200w 4 rail LPS with two adjustable rails uses these. I've been thinking of trying this to power streamer, DAC and switch all from one LPS in order to minimise LPS box count, do you have any experience of this product?

DC71 posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

RICHYH posted:

Thanks for the update Mr Underhill. I look forward to hearing more.

What power supply do you use the ultra trendy with?

Hi Rich,

You are right, in digital audio power is CRITICAL. In Naim-world this is ...

Interesting you mention these LT3045. The HDPlex 200w 4 rail LPS with two adjustable rails uses these. I've been thinking of trying this to power streamer, DAC and switch all from one LPS in order to minimise LPS box count, do you have any experience of this product?

I have no experience with the new HDPlex 200w 4 rail LPSU but, generally speaking, it is not a good idea to power devices that are galvanically isolated from the same multi rail PSU. This would possibly defeat galvanic isolation.

DC71 posted:

Interesting you mention these LT3045. The HDPlex 200w 4 rail LPS with two adjustable rails uses these. I've been thinking of trying this to power streamer, DAC and switch all from one LPS in order to minimise LPS box count, do you have any experience of this product?

Sorry, no.

WRT SOtM

I am really loving what these boxes are doing.

Are they more detailed than the uR - maybe not - don't think they are as resolved as the DCS.
Are they more dynamic than the uR - maybe not - probably not as dynamic as the DCS.

So what are they doing?
I love the tone, timbre and imaging.

The uR seems to direct my attention more to the upper end of the tonal spectrum, the SOtM more into the mid-range.

I am surprised by the sps500. Like Naim SOtM must have put a lot of effort into getting the best from SMPS without polluting things elsewhere.

A couple of days ago my listening included:
Neil Diamond - Home Before Dark
Now this is an album that I thought was strong, but probably not up to his earlier work. I was completely entranced, and have probably turned that opinion around. The detail and subtlety are wonderful.

Yesterday:
Les Zep IV
This is the best I have heard this CD rip through my system. I had heard most the elements at different times, but then as I made gains on the roundabouts I lost them on the swings. For instance, at the start of Black Dog there is some low level bass where the note drops a few notes as it trails off. I only picked up on this a couple of years ago, and so I listen for it. More latterly with the uR it was gone, now it is back, present and correct.

Erich Kunzel -The Ultimate Movie Music Collection D2
This is an album I haven't listened to in a month of Sundays, and I suspect I would have been as pleasantly surprised via the uR, but boy, this is FAR more dynamic than I had previously heard.

At the weekend I have a friend, who also does reviews, coming back over to have a listen. Unfortunately the friend with the DCS can't make it .....damnation. My plan:

1. Demo the current SOtM rig;
2. Replace the 200 ultra with the uR;
3. Return to just the uR.

After that if we have any time I will return to (1) and start stripping out the widgets to see if they still have a positive benefit.

Hi M,

Nice thread! I have often wanted to try the SOtM stuff and thought about getting their SPS-500 ps first to try it with the uR or to charge the Uptone LPS 1.2 powering the uR!

Thanks for sharing these interesting comparisons. I will be following them with much interest.

B.

Thanks again Mr Underhill.

Please could you tell me what the 3 boxes are?

thanks

Rich

Mr Underhill posted:

DC71 posted:

Interesting you mention these LT3045. The HDPlex 200w 4 rail LPS with two adjustable rails uses these. I've been thinking of trying this to power streamer, DAC and switch all from one LPS in order to minimise LPS box count, do you have any experience of this product?

Sorry, no.

Hello Mr Underhill, i am out of the topic, i know.   I am searching a used ear 534 power amp.  Perhaps you can have some ideas... thanks 

Hi Rich,

In this case by Trifecta I mean the sms200ultra, txUSB ultra and the sps500.

M

Hi FR,

I have seen a couple up for sale on the web. If you ask Richard for my email, and point him at this post, then we can chat.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi FR,

I have seen a couple up for sale on the web. If you ask Richard for my email, and point him at this post, then we can chat.

M

thanks Mr U, i will do that.

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi FR,

I have seen a couple up for sale on the web. If you ask Richard for my email, and point him at this post, then we can chat.

M

are they the 2 on hifisharks, on italian site?   sorry, my last question before i contact Richard.

Hi FR,

There have been others. I would be VERY careful with those Italian adverts, but I do have a cunning plan for sorting the chaff from the wheat.

As for the 534: I think it is a SUPERB amplifier and would obviously match your 912 - of which I am mildly jealous!

M

I have to say that as uncommitted as I am trying to remain this three box combo is reeling me in. I jerry rigged it into my grounding loom which added a touch of luquid weught to the bottom end. This is really very addictive listening.

Looking forward to Saturday.

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi FR,

There have been others. I would be VERY careful with those Italian adverts, but I do have a cunning plan for sorting the chaff from the wheat.

As for the 534: I think it is a SUPERB amplifier and would obviously match your 912 - of which I am mildly jealous!

M

thanks a lot Mr U.  I have to take a decision fast because of not attended financial problems.

I finally made a very good affair with my dealer and took a nap 250dr and rega rp8 demo.  I sold my nap 300dr and rega rp10.   I was also doubting between nap 250dr and ear 534.

With the ear 534, i was not sure to find the impact, prat and urgency in the sound.  Maybe it would have given me that, but i found no serious second hand ear 534 too.   And without buying the nap 250dr,  the dealer could not have taken my rega rp10...

Maybe in the future i will look again on the ear 534....

Hi FR,

Hope it does what you need. If you want to know what my way of de-risking these purchases is drop me an email.

SOtM vs ultraRendu vs DCS Network Bridge

I was joined by two friends, one of whom bought along his DCS Network Bridge.

The landscape into which I fitted the chains below is:

The digital chains fed into:
Digital > Audio Note 2.1 (upgraded with Blackgate caps) > EAR868/534 > Focal 1008be II.

The chains were as follows:

1) Network >> SOtM sms200 ultra (sps500 + CAT7) > Uptone Iso Regen (LPSU + CAT7 + LT3045) > SOtM txUSB ulta (sps500 + CAT7) > SingXer F1 (LPSU + Dual CAT8 + LT3045) >> system
1) Network >> SOtM sms200 ultra (sps500) > Uptone Iso Regen (LPSU + CAT7 + LT3045) > SOtM txUSB ulta (sps500) > SingXer F1 (LPSU + Dual CAT8 + LT3045) >> system
2) Network >> Sonore ultraRendu (LPSU + LT3045) > Uptone Iso Regen (LPSU + CAT7 + LT3045) > SOtM txUSB ulta (sps500 + CAT7) > SingXer F1 (LPSU + Dual CAT8 + LT3045) >> system
3) Network >> Sonore ultraRendu (LPSU + LT3045) > Uptone Iso Regen (LPSU + CAT7 + LT3045) > SingXer F1 (LPSU + Dual CAT8 + LT3045) >> system
4) Network >> Sonore ultraRendu (LPSU + LT3045 + CAT7) > Uptone Iso Regen (LPSU + CAT7 + LT3045) > SingXer F1 (LPSU + Dual CAT8 + LT3045) >> system
5) Network >> DCS Network Bridge >> system

We also had a Raspberry Pi3 with SPDIF board ....but, we ran out of time.

Summary:
All the equipment was capable and served up plenty of good music.
The SOtM and Sonore were on a par but had different sound signatures, and so you would need to listen to decide which floats your particular boat.
The ultraRendu (uR) has a somewhat brighter presentation than the SOtM which also has a deeper bass, although the uR presents bass lines in a more heightened way.
Both devices reveal plenty of detail, but in a subtlety different way.

Over all if called upon to choose then I would probably select the SOtM, but I can see that others would select the uR.

On the day the winner was ......the DCS Network Bridge.

My Observations:

The SOtM stack with CAT7 PoE on the DC reduced the dynamics slightly, but revealed a delightful 3D in the sound field. This was my preferred SOtM presentation. Removing the CAT7 gave greater dynamics and impact, but also fractionally collapsed the 3D and reduced some delightful subtlety.

I have read that replacing the sms200 ultra with a microRendu causes the sound quality to reduce, not so with the ultraRendu, but the character does change as described above.

Removing the txUSB from the chain to just have the ultraRendu did result in a sharper presentation. Also, as the complexity of the music increased I did feel that some of the clarity was reduced. With my fellow listeners shielded from my deeds I swapped in a AQ Pearl CAT7 into the DC feeding the uR. The immediate comment, 'Have you just swapped the SOtM txUSB back in?'; this effected the tone, but not I felt the clarity.

There were other chains we could have tried, such as removing the Iso Regen. However, what we did took 5.5 hours, and the Iso Regen in combination with the SOtM is widely praised, and I know it is good for the uR.

The DCS NB simplifies things significantly. Goodbye LPSUs, goodbye spaghetti, goodbye LT3045. Having heard it a few weeks ago I was expecting the DCS to be a tad more strident than chain (1) and have a slightly more 2D soundfield. My latter expectation was met, but the musical flow and resolution was simply better. The music was more cohesive, it sounded 'of a piece'.

Now the DCS NB is significantly more expensive, and the SOtM/uR do have other potential improvements. I was already exploring buying a far better multi-rail LPSU and looking into a Master Clock, but this would add a further £2k and £1k - £3.5k respectively - whoops!

Is a cheaper and better solution available? I am following an informative thread on Computer Audiophile, and will report back once some new, and rather cheap, kit arrives and I have set it up.

Metatron's (Frm WigWam) Observations:

Hi M,

For me, the thing that stood out when I compared RPi3 to dCS (I got it wrong yesterday, it was Linn Akurate DSM that I didn't compare to dCS as I never had both units at the same time)...I found that the dCS has two stand out things:

1) impeccable timing... everything timed well, so PRaT was always as it should be, without artificially fast attack... so it never fatigues and does do decay properly

2) it aids the DAC in resolving everything in the most 3D way.... not individual parts pulled out and noticeable, like huge bass, or plenty of presence, or amazing cymbals, but it manages to keep separate all the musical parts to a level where relative to each other they are still correct and musical. Nothing seems artificially pronounced.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

SOtM vs ultraRendu vs DCS Network Bridge

I was joined by two friends, one of whom bought along his DCS Network Bridge.

The landscape into which I fitted the chains ....

Thanks for the report! The dCS NB seems to emerge almost like a bargain: no multiple boxes, no multiple power supplies, no cable mess, no redundancies: very nice!

The questions that remain are how does the dCS's software fare and how does the sound quality of the dCS compare to that of more affordable Ethernet  to S/PDIF interfaces like the DigiOne Signature.

But that's for another session, I guess. Thanks again, nbpf

Hi NBPF,

The RPi3 that Metatron compared to the DCS NB that he owns is one with a Allo spdif board, comments above. This seems consistent with what Hans Beekhuysen is reporting. However, if you REALLY want to put the cat amongst the pigeons then look at using a cheap NUC with AudioLinux.

One of the things this session confirmed for me was the importance of the server feeding the endpoint. At one point I switched to using my NAS to strem the files, the immediate drop in SQ was plainly obvious.

M

Thanks for this update....the diagram was complicated for me but very precise.

It seems that the DCS NB is compelling and reasonable value looking at what it can replace: would I be correct in assuming that it cannot connect to a Hugo? Is SPDIF better than USB?

I have read up on the Audio Note 2.1, it does seem to be a wonderful DAC; do you prefer it to other DACs you have may have heard such as the Border Patrol, Mytek Brooklyn etc.

Are you now going to return the Trifecta and buy the DCS!

Cheers

Stewart

Docv posted:

 

Are you now going to return the Trifecta and buy the DCS!

 

That's a good question -- I am also curious whether SOTM stays in the Underhill household. 

Did you have a chance to assess what the txUSBultra add to the SOTM set-up -- holy trinity or not much difference when the holy spirit leaves the equation? 

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi NBPF,

The RPi3 that Metatron compared to the DCS NB that he owns is one with a Allo spdif board, comments above. This seems consistent with what Hans Beekhuysen is reporting. However, if you REALLY want to put the cat amongst the pigeons then look at using a cheap NUC with AudioLinux.

One of the things this session confirmed for me was the importance of the server feeding the endpoint. At one point I switched to using my NAS to strem the files, the immediate drop in SQ was plainly obvious.

M

 

Has Metatron compared the Allo DigiOne or the DigiOne Signature to the dCS NB?

The DigiOne Signature is a major improvement over the DigiOne, especially when its clean side is powered via batteries or through a LPS-1.2. It brings the same system simplification as the dCS. Thus, at less than 300$ it might be worth a try. 

I have been following the latest development of the original "A novel way to massively improve ..." thread on CA. I have ran some experiments with real time kernels in the past and I am not very surprised that low-power, low-latency sources can dramatically improve the sound quality. I have seen there is also an AudioLinux version for RPis, I'll check if it comes with the DigiOne drivers.

Docv posted:

Thanks for this update....the diagram was complicated for me but very precise.

It seems that the DCS NB is compelling and reasonable value looking at what it can replace: would I be correct in assuming that it cannot connect to a Hugo? Is SPDIF better than USB?

I have read up on the Audio Note 2.1, it does seem to be a wonderful DAC; do you prefer it to other DACs you have may have heard such as the Border Patrol, Mytek Brooklyn etc.

Are you now going to return the Trifecta and buy the DCS!

Cheers

Stewart

 

Hi Stewart,

I know, digital audio is a pig - everything makes a difference but the difference isn't always better!

I think the DCS NB is an excellent piece of kit, and I prefer it to the ultraRendu and SOtM stack.

My friend who owns the DCS NB uses it with the Hugo via its spdif.

From what I have read the spdif works better with the Hugo, but all these things need testing as it is your ears and your system. N.B. DCS promised that they would turn the NB USB input into an output as well, they have backed away from this. The hardware they use for the NB was unable to do this in the way DCS have managed this before.

I have returned the SOtM - but not without some thought. I am grateful to Elite Audio for their generous support.

I am currently trying AudioLinux, headless and in RAM mode - so the device boots from a USB stick and runs without a HDD/SSD. I have loaded this onto two devices, one acting as the stream aggregator ( a la uR) and one as my Logitech Media Server.

If I was to buy Sonore, SOtM or DCS the DCS would be the one ....and still may be.

Cheers,

M

Timo posted:

Docv posted:

 

Are you now going to return the Trifecta and buy the DCS!

 

That's a good question -- I am also curious whether SOTM stays in the Underhill household. 

Did you have a chance to assess what the txUSBultra add to the SOTM set-up -- holy trinity or not much difference when the holy spirit leaves the equation? 

 

Blasphemer!!

I felt the txUSBultra did two things: tone and detail.

I was able to replicate the tone using PoE.

The detail is not a spectacular difference, but then if you are on this site you are almost certainly as OCD as the rest of us! However, the DCS extracted even more detail and in a better sounding sound field to my ears .....and is so much neater.

If you were to get the txUSB then you will need a PSU, then will you want one with the clock input, then ......££££££

M

Nice reporting M! Thanks for the very interesting updates. Are using the Celeron NUC? I have thought about trying one.

I find Metatron's  observations that you posted above on the dCS very striking, as that is how I hear my setup that I posted in the '..Hugo of streaming..' thread.

Good digital times!

Keep the feedback flowing..

ATB

B.

nbpf posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi NBPF,

The RPi3 that Metatron compared to the DCS NB that he owns is one with a Allo spdif board, comments above. This seems consistent with what Hans Beekhuysen is reporting. However, if you REALLY want to put the cat amongst the pigeons then look at using a cheap NUC with AudioLinux.

One of the things this session confirmed for me was the importance of the server feeding the endpoint. At one point I switched to using my NAS to strem the files, the immediate drop in SQ was plainly obvious.

M

 

Has Metatron compared the Allo DigiOne or the DigiOne Signature to the dCS NB?

The DigiOne Signature is a major improvement over the DigiOne, especially when its clean side is powered via batteries or through a LPS-1.2. It brings the same system simplification as the dCS. Thus, at less than 300$ it might be worth a try. 

I have been following the latest development of the original "A novel way to massively improve ..." thread on CA. I have ran some experiments with real time kernels in the past and I am not very surprised that low-power, low-latency sources can dramatically improve the sound quality. I have seen there is also an AudioLinux version for RPis, I'll check if it comes with the DigiOne drivers.

It will be the DigiOne. Hans B. was impressed by the Signature, not up to the SOtM ultra in his opinion - from memory.

If you can get AudioLinux for RPi I would recommend it - esp. if it will work in RAM Mode - all the OS in memory, makes a big difference.

M