Updated 272

I’m not sure what you mean by the classic range all in ones. If you mean the SU etc. the answer is that, just like the 272, they cannot be updated. The new Unitis and streamers are built around a totally new hardware platform that cannot be retro fitted to the ‘legacy’ models. 

As to when, and if, there will be a new streaming preamp, that’s something a lot of people would like to know. 

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m not sure what you mean by the classic range all in ones. If you mean the SU etc. the answer is that, just like the 272, they cannot be updated. The new Unitis and streamers are built around a totally new hardware platform that cannot be retro fitted to the ‘legacy’ models. 

As to when, and if, there will be a new streaming preamp, that’s something a lot of people would like to know. 

That is what I was asking, when an updated all-in-one streaming pre-amp was to be released. By all in one, I meant front end - everything but the amplification. 

Probably two versions of the 272 both with the new streaming platform.

372 with inbuilt PSU but can take XPS, 555 etc

Higher spec model called 572 no inbuilt PSU and requires 555DR and has similar preamp qualities to a 552.

I don’t believe such a thing will come ... however a 272-2 would be realistic I assume ...

Having had the 272 for a few years, I'm more inclined towards a traditional source/integrated amp two box solution rather than a dac/preamp -> amp combo..

having been to the NDX2 and ND555 launches, there is nothing in the pipe line from what I understand, I think all of the R&D investment has gone into the new streamers - but like I have commented re the new NDX2 forum - does this mean the NDX & NDS are broken in any way NO, sure it's the same for the 272 it's only going to be an issue going forward when Hi res goes beyond current platform, of course some members would like Room etc, but I am not in that collection

I am going to a demo on new DSM Selekt next week to hear in the flesh, I am not planning to changee ny NDX anytime soon, the replacement for the 272 has been talked about for some years even before the new streamers where launched

antony d posted:

having been to the NDX2 and ND555 launches, there is nothing in the pipe line from what I understand,

 

Naim is renowned for saying nothing about what is in the pipeline until it is launched, so the fact no-one could or would tell you anything means precisely nothing. There will certainly be new products being designed, even I dare say quite advanced, but how far they are from release is anyone's guess. We will just have to wait and see.

best

David

......Be careful, what you wish for.......????

HiFiman posted:

Probably two versions of the 272 both with the new streaming platform.

372 with inbuilt PSU but can take XPS, 555 etc

Higher spec model called 572 no inbuilt PSU and requires 555DR and has similar preamp qualities to a 552.

That's what they should be doing, in my opinion, although I wouldn't expect a higher level model to be part of the 500 series products, but I would like to see a 272 mk2 and another, higher-spec model above it, along the lines you describe.

If Naim don't introduce that line of products I think it is likely I will become an ex-customer at some point in the future, which would be a shame after 10 or so years of buying only Naim equipment (aside from speakers). The analogue preamps are too outdated in their design and functionality to interest me, and frankly, the cost of a separate Naim streamer and preamp (and associated power supplies) is too expensive, no matter how good it may sound. Most of the hifi industry has gone in the direction of integrating and combining functionality into fewer products in the past decade, and I hope that Naim apply some of their expertise to doing the same. Ignoring what your marketplace is doing is rarely a successful strategy for any company.

A 272 style streaming pre amp with no onboard power supply is also on my Christmas wish list (maybe with a HDMI connection) . It was the SuperUniti that attracted me to Naim but the sound did not quite do it for me, but I'm not after too many boxes. 

While I am wishing, I hope it would be like the NDS , it could be powered by the XPS and then could upgrade to the 555 PS and use both outputs. I could add a XPS to my 272 and then upgrade to the new streaming amp and after that upgrade to the 555 PS . That would sit well with my 250, now I just hope Santa and Naim read the Naim forums.

Naim are unlikely to deliver a priduct that cannibalises NDX2 or ND555 sales.

Any replacement would likely be aimed at the ND5xs2/202 level where the 202 is powered by a 200 (non DR). 

It's the right performance point. It makes sense. It's what they did before. It leaves a compelling argument for higher end separates open.

That said, there is not a huge amount wrong with the current 272. People get overly itchy about any digital product that is more than a couple years old. While functionality moves forward, perfomance does so at a far slower pace. 

Also, the forum has shown us that almost every member of the "less boxes is better and my 272/250 is as enjoyable as twice as many boxes" brigade has eventually gravitated to 272/XPS/300 or something similar. So maybe those that really favor fewer boxes should stick with just one: Uniti. 

After all, by now, many have realised, 2 boxes or 5, it takes the same floor space on a rack. If you are willing to spend GBP 5k on a hypothetical 372, you might as well get separates and a couple more shelves on the rack for the same money and greater flexibility.

A good “less boxes” option would be the NDX2 with a SN2. Theroretically, separating the streamer/source from the preamp is a priority over separating the pre and power amps and in line with a source first philosophy. A direct comparison would be interesting. Maybe a NDX2 into the N272 would be an upgrade (if possible?).

I probably should have also said not only less boxes but also less cables. I don't think a 282/2 X hiccap and napsc and a nd5 xs or NDX plus power supply will ever be on my radar, that's a lot of cables. The only cables I have connected to my 272 is the power cable, network cable and the audio out from my TV. A power supply and burndy is about as far as I want to go

I think that Naim are now starting to get a different cross section of customers, there are the new Units range of customers that are adding power amplifiers who could eventually upgrade to a 272 (or whatever follows it) but I don't think too many of them would move to a set up of separates. To the  group that have separates and possibly have a turntable, CD, tuner, streamer and a cassette player or a reel tape player a few more boxes and cables aren't a big deal. 

The other group who could be interested in a higher spec 272 would be the owners of active speakers. I think Focal do an active studio monitor, I wouldn't be surprised if one day there was an active Focal speaker that had Naim electronics. A set of active speakers and a 272 that's a neat setup. 

SPE posted:

If Naim don't introduce that line of products I think it is likely I will become an ex-customer at some point in the future, which would be a shame after 10 or so years of buying only Naim equipment (aside from speakers). The analogue preamps are too outdated in their design and functionality to interest me, and frankly, the cost of a separate Naim streamer and preamp (and associated power supplies) is too expensive, no matter how good it may sound.

I hope this doesn’t come across as patronising, but perhaps Naim is not for you... Naim focuses on SQ and enjoyment as a primary goal.. Their preamps are arguably world leading, and certainly world class, and it took the Statement NAC to better the 552 ... The Naim many of us appreciate are not going to compromise that for a bit of tech bling that will be forgotten about in a few years time... I suspect if you want consumer lifestyle fashion products with built in obsolescence then the market is full of such manufacturers .. so take you pick... but if SQ is the most important then Naim should be on your audition list.

One of Naim’s key design considerations is separation and decoupling... quite common in the world of precision electronics, less common in consumer electronics...  so I very much doubt, especially at the top end we will see products with lots compressed in as SQ will suffer. The 272 was a real challenge  at the time, and I suspect still is, and was as far as they could go with compression with out having an unacceptable impact on SQ.

If you look at this from a commercial and business point of view, it would make sense for Naim to produce a revised 272.

i) standardise the streaming module, in streaming and network players.

ii) standardise the display module, in streaming and network players.

iii) all streaming and network players would then be updated via Ethernet or WiFi.

etc,etc

When you consider the above, it would make economic sense for Naim to review the 272 sooner, rather than later. With the greatest respect to Naim, they operate in a totally different business world to when Julian founded the company.

I would pencil my diary in for the end of February 2019.

Man with no Naim posted:

 

I would pencil my diary in for the end of February 2019.

Imho this is hopelessly unrealistic bearing in mind the ND5 XS2 hasn't shipped yet. Feb 2020 might be more likely than Feb 2019.

best

David

You have to take into consideration that the designs for the new network players, releasing this year, were completed awhile ago. The delay to release, is usually due to setting up for a production run. If Naim, were to preview a revised 272 in February 2019, then I would not expect to see the item available to purchase till late spring or summer 2019.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

...

One of Naim’s key design considerations is separation and decoupling... quite common in the world of precision electronics, less common in consumer electronics...  so I very much doubt, especially at the top end we will see products with lots compressed in as SQ will suffer. The 272 was a real challenge  at the time, and I suspect still is, and was as far as they could go with compression with out having an unacceptable impact on SQ.

 

And that may also be the reason it benefits so dramatically from the use of an external power supply (particularly from the 555, which provides better control of the voltage rails).

Possibly.. although the toroidal is carefully placed in the cases so as to reduce the EM fired over the electronics it is not reduced entirely.. and the effect is higher than it is in some other devices because of the case density.  Yes also changing the powersupply source impedance will affect the performance of the fed electronics ... whether it’s an improvement in SQ say between the assumed impedance differences between the XPS2 or 555  or not will be to a large extent subjective.

Man with no Naim posted:

If you look at this from a commercial and business point of view, it would make sense for Naim to produce a revised 272.

i) standardise the streaming module, in streaming and network players.

ii) standardise the display module, in streaming and network players.

iii) all streaming and network players would then be updated via Ethernet or WiFi.

etc,etc

When you consider the above, it would make economic sense for Naim to review the 272 sooner, rather than later. With the greatest respect to Naim, they operate in a totally different business world to when Julian founded the company.

I would pencil my diary in for the end of February 2019.

Then you are essentially talking about a 272.2 updated to the new platform, rather than a higher level 372 or 572 that people have speculated about, and which seem pretty unlikely to me. I find it hard to imagine that Naim would not want to put the 272 onto the new streaming platform. 

372 or 572 will come a lot hater , if ever. I would suppose, that will depends on what drops out of the new range of analogue pre- amplifiers, whenever that happens.

As already been stated previously, you produce 372 or 572, then you will impact on sales of new network players.

Even a revised 272, besides incorporating new display and streaming platform, can have modest improvements made to the analogue/digital interface circuit design.. This would not result in a new design from scratch.

The 272 has been a extremely popular seller for Naim. However, how many new revised versions do you think they could sell, while also saving production costs, software development, technical support etc.

Man with no Naim posted:

If you look at this from a commercial and business point of view, it would make sense for Naim to produce a revised 272.

i) standardise the streaming module, in streaming and network players.

ii) standardise the display module, in streaming and network players.

iii) all streaming and network players would then be updated via Ethernet or WiFi.

etc,etc

Naim would still have to provide support for their discontinued legacy streamers so none of this is a problem really

feeling_zen posted:

...

Also, the forum has shown us that almost every member of the "less boxes is better and my 272/250 is as enjoyable as twice as many boxes" brigade has eventually gravitated to 272/XPS/300 or something similar. So maybe those that really favor fewer boxes should stick with just one: Uniti. 

...

Not me gov!  Still have the same three-box (272/XPS/250) setup I had whenI bought the 272/250 shortly after the 272 came out (already had the XPS).  I suspect those who move from a 200 or 250 to a 300 are more likely to post than those just content to enjoy there music, so posts on the forum may not be an infallible guide to the "less boxes is better brigade" if such exists.

Roger

I imagine one of the conundrums facing Naim is production capacity. Given the popularity of the new Unitis and the streamers, and given the obvious appeal of the 272, it’s hard to see where they’d fit a popular new product into their current premises.

A nice conundrum for the accountants, but a headache for production management (whoever they are these days!)

Peakman posted:

feeling_zen posted:

...

Also, the forum has shown us that almost every member of the "less boxes is better and my 272/250 is as enjoyable as twice as many boxes" brigade has eventually gravitated to 272/XPS/300 or something similar. So maybe those that really favor fewer boxes should stick with just one: Uniti. 

...

Not me gov!  Still have the same three-box (272/XPS/250) setup I had whenI bought the 272/250 shortly after the 272 came out (already had the XPS).  I suspect those who move from a 200 or 250 to a 300 are more likely to post than those just content to enjoy there music, so posts on the forum may not be an infallible guide to the "less boxes is better brigade" if such exists.

Roger

If you're asking for people to stand up and be counted...I'm still happy with 272/250/XPS ...all DR

That's not to say I wouldn't swop them in a heartbeat for a "better" setup ...but you have to draw the line somewhere...and that's mine ..