nDAC won’t read HiRez FLACS

Is your nDAC on the latest firmware ?

Test using a 16/44 file to confirm the memory stick works with the nDAC.

Guinnless posted:

Is your nDAC on the latest firmware ?

Test using a 16/44 file to confirm the memory stick works with the nDAC.

Yes, the nDAC uses the latest firmware.

The USB stick was tested with several file formats up to flac 24/192.

Ok, I'll test the file in the above link on my nDAC later on tonight.

Guinnless posted:

Ok, I'll test the file in the above link on my nDAC later on tonight.

I look forward to it, thanks Guinnless.

According to [@mention:13111295364991225] the ND555 faces the same issue (see thread "ND555 Impressions")

Hi Tomser,  it won't play on mine either.  It could be a dodgy file...

I'm just going to convert a DSD file to 384khz and will report back shortly.

No the file is fine. It play absolutely fantastic on my humble Allo Digione into the Chord Mojo. Sorry guys.

Wow, good music though.

I've just done a conversion of one of my DSD files to 24/384 and it plays fine.  I'll try again but using 24/352. 

Guinnless posted:

Hi Tomser,  it won't play on mine either.  It could be a dodgy file...

I'm just going to convert a DSD file to 384khz and will report back shortly.

Hi Guinnless,

As reported by [@mention:55771800629066628] the file is ok. 

The problem is Naim related... unfortunately 

If some other nDAC and ND555 users face the same issue, I suppose we should report that to Salisbury. 

OK, it plays on 24/352 too.  Your sample file plays on my PC (Windows 10) so there must be something about it that the nDAC doesn't like. 

TomSer posted:

Hello,

I’ve been buying some 24/352,8kHz files (FLAC, PCM).

Usually I throw them at Roon Rock which makes a sample rate conversion to 176,4kHz.

I feed the nDAC through S/PDIF using Audiophilleo 1 SE + PurePower (which sounds marvellously by the way).

S/PDIF goes no further than 192kHz.

Today I wanted to try those files at full sample rate using an USB stick.

nDAC should go up to 768kHz when fed through USB.

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/dac

I used an USB stick which I know works well.

I simply couldn’t read the 24/352,8kHz files.

Did someone experience the same problem?

Could someone give it a try?
Here is a 24/352,8kHz free sample:

http://www.lindberg.no/hires/t...1_FLAC_352k_24b.flac

I’m planning to order a ND555 and am a bit worried if the problem is the same with the new streamer.

Thanks in advance for your inputs,

Tom

The file does not replay on my Naim DAC with the latest firmware :-(

Guinnless posted:

OK, it plays on 24/352 too.  Your sample file plays on my PC (Windows 10) so there must be something about it that the nDAC doesn't like. 

Here is another 24/352,8kHz file from Chanel Classics :

http://www.serra.se/dvorak.zip

If this one doesn't play either, then there is a problem withe the Naim nDAC, and possibly the ND555.

This is doubtless a stupid question, but is it the case that the Dac will play the 768k 32 bit DSD, but that the FLAC is different and therefore won’t play?

hungryhalibut posted:

This is doubtless a stupid question, but is it the case that the Dac will play the 768k 32 bit DSD, but that the FLAC is different and therefore won’t play?

the files I tested are PCM 24/352,8kHz.

FLAC, ALAC etc. are only containers, FLAC being a very convenient one. The music itself is PCM.

The PCM1704K based DAC included in both nDAC and ND555 should be able to read  PCM 24/352,8kHz files. 

But, unfortunately, it doesn't....

TomSer posted

The PCM1704K based DAC included in both nDAC and ND555 should be able to read  PCM 24/352,8kHz files.

But, unfortunately, it doesn't....

This isn't quite true though as it plays my 384kHz files just fine.

Guinnless posted:

This isn't quite true though as it plays my 384kHz files just fine.

The 384kHz et 352.8kHz are not the same rate multiples. 

352,8kHz = 8 x 44.1 kHz 
384kHz = 8 x 48 kHz

My nDAC plays nicely :  44.1 kHz , 88.2 kHz and 176.4 kHz  ,  but not 352.8kHz

I didn't try 384kHz files.

Do you have one I could try?

Ermm, FLAC (unless the special uncompressed setting) and ALAC are not PCM containers, they are data encoding compression file formats.. when decoded they will construct PCM.

However I would be wary of using these very high data rates...any noise present encoded in these very high rates will be ultrasonic and the chances are this will cause intermodulation distortion and digital noise in your replay equipment. Almost certainly any noise or data here will be artefacts are not relate to the original encoding...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Ermm, FLAC (unless the special uncompressed setting) and ALAC are not PCM containers, they are data encoding compression file formats.. when decoded they will construct PCM.

However I would be wary of using these very high data rates...any noise present encoded in these very high rates will be ultrasonic and the chances are this will cause intermodulation distortion and digital noise in your replay equipment. Almost certainly any noise or data here will be artefacts are not relate to the original encoding...

Hi Simon,

You're right, I obviously meant "container" as a zip files "contains" a compressed text file 

Regarding the noise, that might be the case. But I can't experience it as I can't read those files.

I have very poor knowledge in electro-acoustics. Are 352,8kHz or 384kHz frequencies hihg enough to cause intermodulation issues? 

TomSer posted:

Guinnless posted:

This isn't quite true though as it plays my 384kHz files just fine.

The 384kHz et 352.8kHz are not the same rate multiples. 

352,8kHz = 8 x 44.1 kHz 
384kHz = 8 x 48 kHz

My nDAC plays nicely :  44.1 kHz , 88.2 kHz and 176.4 kHz  ,  but not 352.8kHz

I didn't try 384kHz files.

Do you have one I could try?

I played 352 files as well. Converted from DSD64 - not likely to result in optimum sound quality but they do play ok. ☺

TomSer posted:

I have very poor knowledge in electro-acoustics. Are 352,8kHz or 384kHz frequencies hihg enough to cause intermodulation issues? 

Absolutely.. intermodulation distortion occurs with non linearities in the analogue electronics.. However the PCM1704k is band limited to 20kHz.. so unlikely to be an issue with that device... however the digital noise in the higher frequencies when processed might cause issues albeit very subtle. Interesting the specification of the PCM1704K stated support of sample rates is of 16kHz  to 96kHz ... with an overall max bit clock rate of 25MHz.. which means the max data rate with 32 bit sample frames is 768kHz .. but it’s not clear to me from the data sheet how well the DAC resolves these higher frequencies within these higher data rates and also what the effect is on noise... it seems to be more for oversampling rather than sample data encoding.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted

Absolutely.. intermodulation distortion occurs with non linearities in the analogue electronics.. However the PCM1704k is band limited to 20kHz.. so unlikely to be an issue with that device... however the digital noise in the higher frequencies when processed might cause issues albeit very subtle. Interesting the specification of the PCM1704K stated support of sample rates is of 16kHz  to 96kHz ... with an overall max bit clock rate of 25MHz.. which means the max data rate with 32 bit sample frames is 768kHz .. but it’s not clear to me from the data sheet how well the DAC resolves these higher frequencies within these higher data rates and also what the effect is on noise... it seems to be more for oversampling rather than sample data encoding.

Thank you for your explanation!

I rapidly read the nDAC "white paper" but didn't find any useful info why nDAC can't cope with 352,8kHz rates. Maybe because 352,8kHz isn't a multiple of 16...  Neither is 44,1kHz by the way. Or maybe the oversampling process can't deal withe such a frequency. Strange...

And it is in fact unclear what sample rates are actually supported by the PCM1704K chip.

Not so sure I'll order a ND555 anymore.

I supsect that the USB stick the OP is using does not have fast enough data trasfer speed to handle the files in question.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I supsect that the USB stick the OP is using does not have fast enough data trasfer speed to handle the files in question.

I wish it was the case. Unfortunately it's not 
It's seems to be sample rate related.
As you can read above, 352 kHz obtained from a DSD64 conversion is ok.
But genuine 24bits / 352,8 kHz PCM isn't.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I supsect that the USB stick the OP is using does not have fast enough data trasfer speed to handle the files in question.

Good point. I've already stated the mine plays files I've created ok.  This is on a cheap generic USB stick.

The sample file in the link won't play but we don't know it's heritage. The files I created were converted from DSD files purchased from HDTracks.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I supsect that the USB stick the OP is using does not have fast enough data trasfer speed to handle the files in question.

The free sample comes directly from 2L Records.
http://www.lindberg.no/hires/t...1_FLAC_352k_24b.flac



Give it a try 

Moderated Post:  Tomser please don't post your own purchased copies of  music files.  Thanks.