Naim DAC

Khan posted:

hi guys, can anyone chime in on how the N DAC fares against the modern plethora of DACS. any comparisons to Schiit, Berkeley, Aqua would be handy. Anything from tonal balance to definition will be great.

 

If Mr Underhill could kindly report back if he has any feedback of the Border Patrol DAC SE and the Naim DAC that would be lovely. My DAC history so far has been, Audiolab MDAC,  HRT, Chord Hugo, Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Never owned a Naim source component therefore I’m considering moving to an all Naim setup. 

 

Thanks 

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/chord-qutest-demo

The nDAC no longer appears on the DAC part of the Naim website so presumably the nDAC is now discontinued.

https://www.naimaudio.com/digi...-analogue-converters

I use mine everyday with an ND5XS and love the sound it makes.  It was probably the first digital source that I was ever really happy with.  That said the forum has for some time now reported that there are better DACs available.  When it was first launched the nDAC was an upgrade for existing Naim digital sources.  Although I've not auditioned any of them it is possible that Naim do not consider the nDAC to improve the sound from the most recent generation of streamers.

At $1800 s/h it's a great dac. :-)

NathanJ posted:

The nDAC no longer appears on the DAC part of the Naim website so presumably the nDAC is now discontinued.

https://www.naimaudio.com/digi...-analogue-converters

SNIP

Yep, shown as discontinued in Product History.

https://www.naimaudio.com/product-history

It's strange that the nDAC is discontinued before a replacement is announced. Will there even be a replacement? 

It was the best Naim DAC in its class.

NickSeattle posted:

It was the best Naim DAC in its class.

Ummm, it was the only one in its class.

Seems a pity to me as it caused quite a stir on release ten years or so ago. It was also much more aesthetically pleasing in the context of an all Naim system than some of the freaks out there.

Ray

nDAC long awaited replacements indeed offer integrated streaming capabilities and an OLED screen. They are are referenced as.. NDX-2 and ND555. 

Chag -

Perhaps end of an era, but indeed the Naim DAC architecture has been what all the subsequent classic series and above network streamer DACs have been based  on including the ND555.. so we have a lot to be appreciative for from that Naim DAC that was designed and appeared all those years ago.

Daniel H. posted:

It's strange that the nDAC is discontinued before a replacement is announced. Will there even be a replacement? 

My guess they are working on Statement level news, the ordinary nDac might not be replaced due to limited sales

My dealer has not stocked for at least a couple of years....no demand.

The other factor is the nDac used the same 1704 K chipsets that is used in the ND555. With a finite supply of these chipsets which have not been made for many years, perhaps they decided to concentrate the supply on the ND555. 

interesting to learn Naim discontinued the DAC. my take on it was that the N DAC sounded best with external power supplies and that’s something I wasn’t to keen on doing. Partly because of box count and partly because I chose to spend my budget on the amplification and speakers as opposed to the source. After reading and experiencing different DACs I determined it’s possible to get a better sound this way. Besides there are plenty of very reasonable sources that can be had at reasonable prices. 

However, I feel as if my DAC history has left me wanting a little more from the source. I guess I want that boogie factor. Something I feel a Naim DAC will provide over something like the Chord. Btw. Hugo for me was nice and smooth. But definitely lacked bass, and the midrange took a back seat. Best low end and midrange I think was the HRT Pro. That surprised me as it was also the cheapest DAC I have owned. 

This Border patrol DAC SE also has caught my interest along with the NDAC. 

Not sure a Border patrol boogies as much, it might have other advantages

Chord Hugo are nice but battery dependant and lack of generel involvement makes it a dealbreaker for me

nDac dealbreaker as well, due to two-box solution needed, single mode is too compromised me think

I'm a fan of the Naim DAC, and I think that it's rather good even without a separate add-on power supply. I use it with a Powerline and a DIN Hi-Line interconnect. I also have a Chord Hugo, which I bought for travels, although I admit I have mostly found it easier just to use an Audioquest dragonfly on my MBP or use on of my DAPs.  I've tried the Hugo in the main system and it does many things very well.  I think if I were listening mostly to classical music then I'd choose it over the Naim DAC.  However, on rock, pop or jazz I find the meatier, earthier sound of the Naim DAC preferable - even standalone.  The latter is also far more convenient to use compared to the Hugo and if you have a plethora of digital sources, it's no contest - the Naim DAC is a fantastic digital hub. At their secondhand price of around £1k, I think the Naim DAC is a great value buy and worth trying as it will likely be easily sold on if it's not quite your thing.

To add to Richard's comment I was a great fan of the NDAC, and I preferred it when partnered with the 555PS to the NDS - comments on that on this forum if one wants to search back. I did indeed it sell it however for a Hugo.. and again a wrote a fair amount on the forum about that from a musical appreciation perspective. I found the NDAC/555PS did have a slightly punchier / more dominant upper bass/ lower mid but the Hugo to my ears excelled every where else. A good ( and there is a lot of sample variation) properly setup and level matched Hugo is still to my ears the one to beat overall for all DACs everywhere - and that is saying something.. HOWEVER that doesn't detract from the Naim DAC - and in my experience to really appreciate the Hugo (with its Mandelbrot set effect insight and intense musical involvement) you need at least a 252DR and preferably higher level of amp(preamp) - where as the Naim DAC shines through with its earthy slightly organic dark sound across all qualities of amplification including entry level. Its interesting to my ears I can hear echoes of the Naim DAC performance in the ND555, albeit the ND555 seems to have lost that dark organic feel and replaced with more insight and intonation. BTW I am referring to the Hugo Mk1, not the later version which in my opinion was just not in the same ball park in terms of musical enjoyment... and yes the Naim DAC is less fiddly to control especially if colour blind or you have fat fingers ... and looks more the 'part' than the Hugo if that is important for you..

S

Khan posted:

hi guys, can anyone chime in on how the N DAC fares against the modern plethora of DACS. any comparisons to Schiit, Berkeley, Aqua would be handy. Anything from tonal balance to definition will be great.

 

If Mr Underhill could kindly report back if he has any feedback of the Border Patrol DAC SE and the Naim DAC that would be lovely. My DAC history so far has been, Audiolab MDAC,  HRT, Chord Hugo, Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Never owned a Naim source component therefore I’m considering moving to an all Naim setup. 

 

Thanks 

Hi Khan,

I think the nDAC is a good DAC, and respond well to PSU upgrades. I moved to the Bel Canto 3.5vbs for other reasons. I did not find this in and of itself any step change in terms of performance from my nDAC/XPS.

However, having introduced a microRendu to replace my NS01 I was having issues with my system in terms of edge that were REALLY annoying me. In the end they had NOTHING to do with DACs, but everything to do with power, in various guises.

Along this route I mistakenly tried different DACs, including: Schiit Yggdrasil; Lampizator L4v5; and, the Border Patrol SE, spdif only. All three were excellent. In my system the one that I enjoyed the most was the Border Patrol.

Unfortunately a friend popped round with his Audionote 2.1 and 4.1. Both are great DACs. I now have an Audionote 2.1 reference.

This is a LONG way of saying I have never directly compared the nDAC and Border Patrol.

Both the Border Patrol and the nDAC are R2R dacs, but the former makes no use of oversampling or DSP.

You can pick up an nDAC for <£1k now, which is a bargain; and then have the temptation of getting a PS555!
Gary will sell you one of his DACs on sale or return.

M

Mr Underhill thank you for your response. I can get a Naim DAC from a dealer whom I’ve dealt with before so I’m not worried about that. I would love the audio note DACs to be honest but they are way out of my budget. Which is around £1250. The border patrol DAC SE and NDAC are the 2 I’m most interested in. 

In regard to the Hugo. I really enjoyed it for almost a year before it went in for repair and I realised that I actually enjoyed the HRT pro which had a more warmer tone. 

Mr underhill How would you compare the Border patrol against the NDAC? I understand it’s from memory, but any insight will be helpful. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

To add to Richard's comment I was a great fan of the NDAC, and I preferred it when partnered with the 555PS to the NDS - comments on that on this forum if one wants to search back. I did indeed it sell it however for a Hugo.. and again a wrote a fair amount on the forum about that from a musical appreciation perspective. I found the NDAC/555PS did have a slightly punchier / more dominant upper bass/ lower mid but the Hugo to my ears excelled every where else. A good ( and there is a lot of sample variation) properly setup and level matched Hugo is still to my ears the one to beat overall for all DACs everywhere - and that is saying something.. HOWEVER that doesn't detract from the Naim DAC - and in my experience to really appreciate the Hugo (with its Mandelbrot set effect insight and intense musical involvement) you need at least a 252DR and preferably higher level of amp(preamp) - where as the Naim DAC shines through with its earthy slightly organic dark sound across all qualities of amplification including entry level. Its interesting to my ears I can hear echoes of the Naim DAC performance in the ND555, albeit the ND555 seems to have lost that dark organic feel and replaced with more insight and intonation. BTW I am referring to the Hugo Mk1, not the later version which in my opinion was just not in the same ball park in terms of musical enjoyment... and yes the Naim DAC is less fiddly to control especially if colour blind or you have fat fingers ... and looks more the 'part' than the Hugo if that is important for you..

S

Like Simon, I too am a big fan of the nDAC. Also, I too preferred the nDAC/555PS over a NDS/555PS.  The nDAC has some serious bass power, real vitality on rock music and a huge soundstage. I thought it was something of a bargain at its new price. Second-hand it is a real steal.  

I’m sure with the 555 it’s probably one of the best source devices available today. However, I doubt I will ever be adding a power supply to it. And even if I were to, it would be a lesser one than the 555. 

Fully recommend the nDAC, best piece of HiFi I have owned. Got mine pre-loved nearly a year ago to work with my ND5XS. Did think about a Hugo but as I had a Din Hiline and Power Line on ND5XS which are now on the nDAC, it made sense to stick to an all Naim system.

I also recommend the nDac and I do have it in my main kit.  I also have a Hugo, but I prefer it for night listening with my headphones.  I loved the Hugo in my main kit  when replaying female voices and some classical, but I prefer the nDac and also as Robd67 it made sense to me to stick to and all Naim system. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

To add to Richard's comment I was a great fan of the NDAC, and I preferred it when partnered with the 555PS to the NDS - comments on that on this forum if one wants to search back. I did indeed it sell it however for a Hugo.. and again a wrote a fair amount on the forum about that from a musical appreciation perspective. I found the NDAC/555PS did have a slightly punchier / more dominant upper bass/ lower mid but the Hugo to my ears excelled every where else. A good ( and there is a lot of sample variation) properly setup and level matched Hugo is still to my ears the one to beat overall for all DACs everywhere - and that is saying something.. HOWEVER that doesn't detract from the Naim DAC - and in my experience to really appreciate the Hugo (with its Mandelbrot set effect insight and intense musical involvement) you need at least a 252DR and preferably higher level of amp(preamp) - where as the Naim DAC shines through with its earthy slightly organic dark sound across all qualities of amplification including entry level. Its interesting to my ears I can hear echoes of the Naim DAC performance in the ND555, albeit the ND555 seems to have lost that dark organic feel and replaced with more insight and intonation. BTW I am referring to the Hugo Mk1, not the later version which in my opinion was just not in the same ball park in terms of musical enjoyment... and yes the Naim DAC is less fiddly to control especially if colour blind or you have fat fingers ... and looks more the 'part' than the Hugo if that is important for you..

S

Simon,

Any reason why you seem to have suddenly lost the ability to use paragraphs? Your contributions are usually immaculate.

Ray

Ray, now that you mention it, no I don’t know... it just came out that way, my standards must be slipping..

I will bear paragraphs in mind on my next post.