Streaming device to complement UnitiServe and NAIM DAC

You could try using your latop... if you have a MacBook (previous generation) it still has digital out via its headphone socket

You could do better there a quite a few lower cost streaming options. Bluesound Node 2 or the new Node 2i are very good and cover all streaming services and are painless to setup. Or their is the Auriliac Aries Mini, which is a bit cheaper. If your daring caring and want to go a bit more diy andcheaper then using a Raspberry pi sbc computer plus an extra audio board can give you excellent quality for less, but it's not for the faint hearted.

Bill_nyc posted:

I have been using a UnitiServe into a NAIM DAC for about 8 years now.  The only thing I am missing is the ability to stream one of the services, eg, TIdal, Spotify.  I know replacing the UnitiServe with a Core will give me that, but I'd rather not spend the money.  Is there an inexpensive option that will complement my existing components?  I've got Airport Express and Apple TV, but I am hoping I can do a bit better without spending thousands.

Thanks for any advice.

The Naim Core supports neither internet radio nor internet streaming services. Thus, independently of the costs, it is not what you are looking for.

I use an Allo DigiOne Signature on a Rpi running MinimServer and upmpdcli. This is a very good UPnP server + renderer solution with support for internet radio, Tidal, Qobuz, etc. See also https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...lo-digione-signature.

GBill_nyc posted:

I have been using a UnitiServe into a NAIM DAC for about 8 years now.  The only thing I am missing is the ability to stream one of the services, eg, TIdal, Spotify.  I know replacing the UnitiServe with a Core will give me that, but I'd rather not spend the money.  Is there an inexpensive option that will complement my existing components?  I've got Airport Express and Apple TV, but I am hoping I can do a bit better without spending thousands.

Thanks for any advice.

The Core does not give you Tidal or Spotify. In fact, it doesn’t even give you iRadio like the Unitiserve does. With Naim, you need a streamer for that, so you would be looking at an ND5XS2. If you were to replace the Unitiserve, you could consider an Innuos server, as these also stream Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, and iRadio. 

The Naim DAC is fussy on digital inputs and needs a good quality SPDIF transport stream (ie low noise / jitter transport frame clock- not to be confused with sample jitter)  to sound irs best.. remember the Naim DAC was the first of this type so Naim’s understanding and experience of clock cross talk isn’t where it is now... so I would recommend a used NDX at least as a streamer transport.. I ran than combo for a couple of years and was rather pleased with it...

Thanks for all the feedback!  Very helpful. 

Re. Simon's response: if the state of the art in DAC's has progressed substantially since I bought mine in 2010, does it makes sense to replace the DAC with a DAC/streamer?  I suppose I could sell my Naim DAC, although maybe I wouldn't get much for it(?).

Well on the Naim product side the actual Dac in the NDac , NDS and the new top end streamer ND555, are identical. It’s the implementation that has changed, basically everything Naim has learnt since NDac has been brought to bear on the new streamers. It’s a matter of listening and deciding if it’s worth parting with your hard earned cash.

Bill_nyc posted:

Thanks for all the feedback!  Very helpful. 

Re. Simon's response: if the state of the art in DAC's has progressed substantially since I bought mine in 2010, does it makes sense to replace the DAC with a DAC/streamer?  I suppose I could sell my Naim DAC, although maybe I wouldn't get much for it(?).

A streamer is a DAC with ethernet inputs. The old Naim DAC had only S/PDIF and USB inputs, the latter without support for audio class 2 and thus with very limited usability. But with 8 S/PDIF inputs, the nDAC is a very interesting proposition for processing the output of different devices in a seamless fashion.

The new DACs come with S/PDIF and Ethernet inputs. Moreover, they also can act as UPnP servers (although with very limited capabilities, much like the Core) of contents stored on attached USB drives.

One can easily find arguments in favour and against the new DACs and, of course, the old nDAC. And preferences and priorities are necessarily subjective. I have listened to the ND555 and it sounds very, very good. But I would not buy one, independently of its price. On the other hand, I would be very interested in a nDAC 2. Others have other preferences and priorities.

Anyway, you have a system that you know well and, apart from lacking support for internet streaming services, does what you want. If you are not too far away from a Naim dealer, it should be easy to get a NDX 2 for a home demo. You can then compare it to the old nDAC and see whether it fills your bill both from the point of view of sound quality and of functionalities. If you are happy with the NDX 2 functionalities but not with its sound quality, you can consider the ND555. Or, as suggested above, just add an input to your nDAC that gives you access to internet streaming services.

Bill_nyc posted:

Thanks for all the feedback!  Very helpful. 

Re. Simon's response: if the state of the art in DAC's has progressed substantially since I bought mine in 2010, does it makes sense to replace the DAC with a DAC/streamer?  I suppose I could sell my Naim DAC, although maybe I wouldn't get much for it(?).

Well yes ultimately it probably does make sense to do this... though you might be looking at a NDS or ND555 as the Naim DACs natural successor in terms of some sonic traits based around the Texas Instruments PCM1704K DAC chips.

bill_nyc - You could do worse than with an AlloDigiOne player connected to your Naim Dac. I've got a ND555 in my main system (into 552/500/Kudos Super 20s). My second system is an AlloDigiOne ethernet streamer ($200) into a Naim Dac (into a Nac72/Hicap/Nap250DR/Kudos X2). I switch seamlessly between the two systems.

Just go with a macmini and optical out. Buy Audirvana and enjoy. No jitterproblem.

// Anders

MangoMonkey posted:

bill_nyc - You could do worse than with an AlloDigiOne player connected to your Naim Dac. I've got a ND555 in my main system (into 552/500/Kudos Super 20s). My second system is an AlloDigiOne ethernet streamer ($200) into a Naim Dac (into a Nac72/Hicap/Nap250DR/Kudos X2). I switch seamlessly between the two systems.

If you replace the DigiOne with a DigiOne Signature powered with a LPS-1.2 you will get a clear improvement in sound quality. The Signature needs a few days to fully run in but then it sounds definitely better than the Digione. It uses the same driver, thus nothing needs to be changed on the Pi. 

Anders in småland posted:

Just go with a macmini and optical out. Buy Audirvana and enjoy. No jitterproblem.

// Anders

I have found electrical S/PDIF to sound better than optical into the Naim DAC. If you connect the macmini to the Naim DAC via something like a Schiit Eitr, you might be able to improve over a direct connection via optical. The disadvantage, of course, is that of an additional box. This is the reason why I prefer the Allo DigiOne transports. These have high quality electrical S/PDIF outputs and there is no need for additional boxes.  

Thanks all for so many great suggestions. 

I’m intrigued by the DigiOne option.  However, I’m a neophyte in this area. I’d love to see a diagram of the required components and how they connect.  Does anyone know where I might find one? 

Bill_nyc posted:

I’m intrigued by the DigiOne option.  However, I’m a neophyte in this area. I’d love to see a diagram of the required components and how they connect.  Does anyone know where I might find one? 

Both the DigiOne and the DigiOne Signature can act exactly as your UnitiServe apart from ripping duties. They get connected to your nDAC with a S/PDIF cable, exactly like the UnitiServe. Since the nDAC has two S/PDIF inputs with BNC connector, you can have both the UnitiServe and the DigiOne (Signature) connected in parallel. This makes it easy to assess the differences in sound quality between the two devices. You can find detailed information on the DigiOne and on the DigiOne Signature on the Allo site.

Bill_nyc posted:

I’m intrigued by the DigiOne option.  However, I’m a neophyte in this area. I’d love to see a diagram of the required components and how they connect.  Does anyone know where I might find one? 

Sorry, I cannot provide you links to the relevant web pages. If you need more informations on the DigiOne or on the Digione Signature, please check https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...lo-digione-signature

Bill_nyc posted:

I’m intrigued by the DigiOne option.  However, I’m a neophyte in this area. I’d love to see a diagram of the required components and how they connect.  Does anyone know where I might find one? 

You can find more information on the DigiOne options on the Computer Audiophile forums. Best, nbpf

Ex-dem ND5 XS at $2K would be my recommendation.  Look for a unit with FM, if that appeals.

Nick

nbpf posted:

Anders in småland posted:

Just go with a macmini and optical out. Buy Audirvana and enjoy. No jitterproblem.

// Anders

I have found electrical S/PDIF to sound better than optical into the Naim DAC. If you connect the macmini to the Naim DAC via something like a Schiit Eitr, you might be able to improve over a direct connection via optical. The disadvantage, of course, is that of an additional box. This is the reason why I prefer the Allo DigiOne transports. These have high quality electrical S/PDIF outputs and there is no need for additional boxes.  

Ok. I Will try an USB converter to se IF I can enjoy even more????.

NickSeattle posted:

Ex-dem ND5 XS at $2K would be my recommendation.  Look for a unit with FM, if that appeals.

Nick

The ND5 XS is a DAC with S/PDIF and Ethernet inputs. If used as a network transport connected to the OP's nDAC, its internal DAC would be completely bypassed. One would buy a $2K product to only use its $200 internal Ethernet to S/PDIF interface. Even worse, the ND5 XS does provide very limited support for internet streaming services. Moreover, it is not clear that the quality of the ND5 XS's S/PDIF is superior to the quality of the outputs of modern interfaces like the DigiOne and the DigiOne Signature. In short, an ex-dem ND5 XS is not a good value for the money, in my view. Just my two cents, of course.

In this set-up, 

maybe

nbpf posted:

NickSeattle posted:

Ex-dem ND5 XS at $2K would be my recommendation.  Look for a unit with FM, if that appeals.

Nick

The ND5 XS is a DAC with S/PDIF and Ethernet inputs. If used as a network transport connected to the OP's nDAC, its internal DAC would be completely bypassed. One would buy a $2K product to only use its $200 internal Ethernet to S/PDIF interface. Even worse, the ND5 XS does provide very limited support for internet streaming services. Moreover, it is not clear that the quality of the ND5 XS's S/PDIF is superior to the quality of the outputs of modern interfaces like the DigiOne and the DigiOne Signature. In short, an ex-dem ND5 XS is not a good value for the money, in my view. Just my two cents, of course.

VFM is significantly affected by what you value.  In my case, total flexibilty plus system integrity and interoperation, and simplicty of operation trump eradication of redundancy, cost (within my limits), and even absolute performance versus alternatives, cheaper or not.  But that is just me.

BILL_NYC seems to have an affinity for Naim gear — UnitiServe into nDAC is a very particular starting point, which suggests to me an ND streamer would add the most and compromise the least to his user experience — and ND streamers meet stated requirement to add Tidal or Spotify.

One could always use the VFM argument to try to negotiate below $2K — not a bad idea at all.

Good luck, Bill, whatever you value most.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

nbpf posted:

NickSeattle posted:

Ex-dem ND5 XS at $2K would be my recommendation.  Look for a unit with FM, if that appeals.

Nick

The ND5 XS is a DAC with S/PDIF and Ethernet inputs. If used as a network transport connected to the OP's nDAC, its internal DAC would be completely bypassed. One would buy a $2K product to only use its $200 internal Ethernet to S/PDIF interface. Even worse, the ND5 XS does provide very limited support for internet streaming services. Moreover, it is not clear that the quality of the ND5 XS's S/PDIF is superior to the quality of the outputs of modern interfaces like the DigiOne and the DigiOne Signature. In short, an ex-dem ND5 XS is not a good value for the money, in my view. Just my two cents, of course.

VFM is significantly affected by what you value.  In my case, total flexibilty plus system integrity and interoperation, and simplicty of operation trump eradication of redundancy, cost (within my limits), and even absolute performance versus alternatives, cheaper or not.  But that is just me.

BILL_NYC seems to have an affinity for Naim gear — UnitiServe into nDAC is a very particular starting point, which suggests to me an ND streamer would add the most and compromise the least to his user experience — and ND streamers meet stated requirement to add Tidal or Spotify.

One could always use the VFM argument to try to negotiate below $2K — not a bad idea at all.

Good luck, Bill, whatever you value most.

Nick

Sure all judgements, included VFM ones, depend on subjective preferences. This is why I wrote that "an ex-dem ND5 XS is not a good value for the money, in my view". Still the facts remain facts and I am not sure what is the most that an ND streamer would add  and the least it would compromize: nDAC and connected Naim amps are best controlled with the Naim remote and the Naim app is certainly not better than BubbleUPnP as a control point, agian, in my view. With a streaming platform that does not get upgraded and cannot be replaced, the ND5 XS also has not so much to offer in terms of flexibility: Qobuz, Idagio and upcoming internet streaming services and formats are not going to be made available and even Tidal support is not 100% robust. There was nothing wrong with the ND5 XS when it became available. But, in much the same way as the NDS, the streaming platform was the weak point and was readily obsolete. For me, the ND5 XS was a no-go four years ago. For the same reasons I would have concerns buying a ND5 XS 2 (NDX 2, ND555) now. In contrast, I would have no reservations buying a second hand nDAC even now. 

I'm leaning toward the minimalist approach and would like to avoid redundancy (ie, another DAC in my streaming device).  That is why the Allo DigiOne Signature option is appealing. 

BTW, all my music is stored on a ReadyNAS.  I've seen some posts mentioning music streaming software installed in a NAS, but I don't understand how this would work.  Is this a worthwhile option?