Apple Mac mini as 'Upnp' Server?

I just resurrected an old Mac mini to do exactly what you’re describing here. I’ve got it streaming to my brand new Nova via Upnp. Not sure what size your mini’s internal drive is. I’ve got my music on a 2TB USB drive hanging off the back. It’s your choice what software to use for ripping the CDs. I’ll let others weigh in on that. I used ITunes back in the day but there are better options out there I’m sure. As far as the software to use to connect your mini to your Atom I heartily recommend MinimServer. It’s a breeze to install and set up and works perfectly.

I put a 1TB in the mini years ago. So I could just rip all CDs with iTunes - seems simple enough , including auto rip and eject, - instal Minim server and point it to the Folder that itunes saved all the rips? Then the naim app would see a server? 

Yep, that’s pretty much it. Just make sure that you’re ripping to a full resolution format (I used AIFF way back when) and that error correction is on. It takes longer but it’s worth it.

Yes, rip in iTunes, but select a high resolution format as your default. Then install a upnp software on the Mac, I’ve used Playback, there is Ansett and others. Then the Niam App will see your Mac as a server and you just select and pay. Easy peasy lemon squeeze, though albumn covers are a bit hit and miss in iTunes. I’ve gone down the Core route now for the all-Naim ecosystem and better rips, but your option is plenty good.

Derelict posted:

1. ripping all music with itunes and somehow the atom/naim app detects it on the network?

 

The Atom doesn't "somehow detect" your music. You need to run a UPnP server on the Mac which will serve (send) the music to the Atom.  I recommend running Asset server from the dbPoweramp company.  If that's running on your Mac, and you've pointed Asset to the music folder on your Mac, the Naim App will see Asset and let you play music to your Atom.

Before I installed Audirvana on my Mac Mini to use as a store-renderer feeding a DAC direct, I used it for a short time as a network server in place of a NAS. I used the free Serviio UPnP app, and the player was an ND5XS. It worked very effectively, the ND5 readily finding and playing anything in my collection, despite much of it having poor or incomplete metadata (though systematically filed)

So Serviio could be worth a try, at zero cost, otherwiise I’m sure any number of other server apps could be used. (Even the latest version of Audirvana can be used as a UPnP server, though I don’t recommend it if there are any imperfections in your music’s metadata, and anyway that defeats what to me is the singular benefit of Audirvana, its excellent sound quality as a renderer when appropriately optimised).

A primary benefit of a NAS is that it is designed to be permanently on, and with limited functions nothing else is likely to risk interrupting the music stream. If left permanently on, the choice of hard drive in whatever machine, computer or NAS, would best be one designed for such a purpose, to maximise its reliability.

Before the MM I used a NAS, a Zyxel NSA325, which was about the cheapest one I could find. It worked adequately but I wanted to replace it because it was noisy (acoustically), and I wanted it to be in te music room for the most direct path. By contrast, the  Mac Mini is as good as silent - it does have a fan, but low speed and very quiet, and only audible within about 2 feet of it in a quiet room (and I use SSDs so not even hard drive noise, though that may not be of significance). Though technically not now using it as a NAS, instead as a store-renderer with Audirvana, mine is on permanently, and has been for about 3 years now, with never an issue. It is dedicated to music play normally, but is much more flexible than a NAS and could be used for other things if I wished, though. 

Mine is a ‘late 2012’ model, bought secondhand, in which I installed a pair of 1TB SSDs, and upped the RAM to 16GB (because of its rendering function),  and it runs ‘headless’, with no keyboard or monitor, music control via the Audirvana app, and when I need other control I use VNC on a tablet or other computer. Because it is dedicated to music playing, I rip CDs or download files on a separate computer, and transfer across the network once ready. That said, it is perfectly possible to connect an external CD drive and rip on the Mac, which if I was doing I’d do with dB poweramp just as I do on a PC, that being an excellent program, capable of ripping many difficult discs, using AccurateRip to help assure a perfect result, and reasonable metadata control. (Personally I hate iTunes!)

Derelict posted:

...

1. ripping all music with itunes and somehow the atom/naim app detects it on the network?

...

 

Do yourself a favour and stop using iTunes. As others have suggested, rip your CDs with a ripping software and make the rips available to UPnP renderers with a UPnP server like Asset or MinimServer.

iTunes will rip your CDs, but just remember to change the format to a lossless one, as it is set by default to rip to aac, which is lossy and will not sound too good. Take a bit of time to check the rips as you go, as you may need to correct the metadata, add album artwork etc. You can, if you want, then use iTunes to send music to the Atom using Apple’s Airplay. Job done. 

An alternative that many prefer is to instal DBpoweramp on your Mac. This has ripping software, a metadata editor, and a UPnP server to communicate with the Atom. There’s a free trial if you fancy giving it a go. 

Yes, best avoid iTunes, it has limited meta data capability and is unable to store meta data in any of the WAV file methods, also iTunes doesn’t do any rip cross reference validation .. I find dbpoweramp works well on my OSX platform... and dbpoweramp gives you some control on how to best store the metadata in WAV files.

Up to a point, I agree with those that say avoid iTunes. There are better options out there, however, as previously noted, as long as you rip to a lossless format, say AIFF, then the rip is as good as any from anywhere else. 

File validation is nice to see but what can you do if accuraterip says that the file you ripped was NOT accurate, i.e the same as those logged in its database. Well you could try a rerip, check and clean the CD etc, but if you get the same result then thats it. You can't change it. 

It also pays to be aware that the same file from the same CD pressed at different plants may not have the same CRC and will therefore possibly conflict with the accuraterip database.

Rip in iTunes if thats all you have, it works perfectly fine. If theres a significant error you will notice it on playback but if it's just 1 bit, which would throw up an accuraterip error, then I challenge anyone to be able to spot it.

Of the many CDs I’ve ripped with dBPoweramp, defaulting to the fast rip setting, quite a few failed AccrateRip. In many cases re-ripping (after re-inspection and cleaning) and with a more intensive rip solved the problem. Of those that didn’t, all but a handful were solved by the most intensive rip. One could set on the most intensive by default, and that is what I have done for CDs not in rge AR database, but it is then a long process. I am guessing that the ability of  iTunes may be comparable to the fastest rip in dBP, therefore had I used iT I would have a lot more rips that are not faithful copies of the original than I do. Whether I would hear the difference I have no idea, but to my mind if it is easy to the rips as accurate as possible then why would I risk otherwise? 

I use XLD to rip, and MinimServer for UPnP. 

XLD embeds the cover art in each song, so I see it in the Naim app.  I could not get iTunes to do that.  AIFF is my pref, as it works in every platform I have tried, unlike FLAC and ALAC.

Nick

As always, 'theres more than one way to skin a cat'.

Try some of the paid options, they usually come with a trial period. But in the end, only you can decide if the ease of use, functionality provided and quality of sound output suits you.

Personally, I now use dbpoweramp but about 3/4 of my CD collection, (4000+) was ripped in iTunes and that suits me fine. 

???? Innocent Bystander,.....Excellent informative writing in your first post here ????????????

/Peder???? 

Peder posted:

???? Innocent Bystander,.....Excellent informative writing in your first post here ????????????

/Peder???? 

Thank you!

Bart posted:

Derelict posted:

1. ripping all music with itunes and somehow the atom/naim app detects it on the network?

 

The Atom doesn't "somehow detect" your music. You need to run a UPnP server on the Mac which will serve (send) the music to the Atom.  I recommend running Asset server from the dbPoweramp company.  If that's running on your Mac, and you've pointed Asset to the music folder on your Mac, the Naim App will see Asset and let you play music to your Atom.

I did exactly this way with my Mac Mini. It is probably the easiest way to do it. Asset upnp software is also reasonably priced. 

Thank you all so much for your wisdom. I have had a bit of experience with computers but very little with networking so youve been a big help. 

I think i will go with dbpoweramp to rip, hopefully to sort out any errors. I think i will go with ALAC to save a bit of space over WAV/AIFF. Hopefully the tagging still works. 

I will then try them over asset server to the Atom.

Will report back after the weekend after ive tried a few albums. 

Daniel H. posted:

Bart posted:

Derelict posted:

1. ripping all music with itunes and somehow the atom/naim app detects it on the network?

 

The Atom doesn't "somehow detect" your music. You need to run a UPnP server on the Mac which will serve (send) the music to the Atom.  I recommend running Asset server from the dbPoweramp company.  If that's running on your Mac, and you've pointed Asset to the music folder on your Mac, the Naim App will see Asset and let you play music to your Atom.

I did exactly this way with my Mac Mini. It is probably the easiest way to do it. Asset upnp software is also reasonably priced. 

Or Minimserver — best price ever.  

So I tried dbpoweramp cd ripper ripping with Flac (just default settings) - Perfect! 

Downloaded and installed the 'Asset' UPnP program from dbpoweramp. - Amazing!!

This is EXACTLY what I wanted. Now to rip all the CDs, remove the monitor and leave the Mac mini as a little server box. 

Would be nice to have a auto rip and eject feature, so I don't have to reconnect the monitor and keyboard every time I buy new CDs (or inherit old ones friends and family are throwing out) 

Nice one Derelict. Glad you are sorted.

As a side issue, have you thought of getting a NAS drive instead of using the Mac to store your music. Its amazing that once you start ripping 2Tb could soon fill up especially if you buy regularly.

For starters, you WILL need a backup of some sort and a NAS could centralise all that.

just a thought for you to ponder.

raym55 posted:

Nice one Derelict. Glad you are sorted.

As a side issue, have you thought of getting a NAS drive instead of using the Mac to store your music. Its amazing that once you start ripping 2Tb could soon fill up especially if you buy regularly.

For starters, you WILL need a backup of some sort and a NAS could centralise all that.

just a thought for you to ponder.

Generally speaking, I do not think that it is a good idea to buy a NAS to backup data and run UPnP servers. The macmini is perfect for running Asset or, even better, MinimServer. Backups are better kept on two or three external drives in two or three different locations. Ideally, these drives are attached to computers that can be accessd remotely. Backup is then done via rsync scripts. This saves time and bandwidth and the attached drives will spin down and go sleeping after a backup is completed. NAS are very useful devices but they should not be used for the backup of critical data, in my view.

nbpf posted:

raym55 posted:

Nice one Derelict. Glad you are sorted.

As a side issue, have you thought of getting a NAS drive instead of using the Mac to store your music. Its amazing that once you start ripping 2Tb could soon fill up especially if you buy regularly.

For starters, you WILL need a backup of some sort and a NAS could centralise all that.

just a thought for you to ponder.

Generally speaking, I do not think that it is a good idea to buy a NAS to backup data and run UPnP servers. The macmini is perfect for running Asset or, even better, MinimServer. Backups are better kept on two or three external drives in two or three different locations. Ideally, these drives are attached to computers that can be accessd remotely. Backup is then done via rsync scripts. This saves time and bandwidth and the attached drives will spin down and go sleeping after a backup is completed. NAS are very useful devices but they should not be used for the backup of critical data, in my view.

Hi nbpf, correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a NAS with say, 4x 3TB drives running in RAID (meaning 4 copies of the same files) be pretty failsafe? 

I think for the moment I will be okay with the 1TB I have , which I will try get backing up to an external usb drive. When this is maxed out and I feel like spending some more dough I will go full blown NAS server. 

raym55 posted:

 

As a side issue, have you thought of getting a NAS drive instead of using the Mac to store your music. Its amazing that once you start ripping 2Tb could soon fill up especially if you buy regularly.

 

To give an idea, I’ve got about 1200 albums, majority 16/44 (standard CD resolution), but a fair sprinkling of hi res, all in flac (the ones I’ve ripped, maybe 2/3rds of the collection, at dBP’s default compression level, 5 IIRC) and it occupies 800GB). So my 1TB SSD still has space for quite a few more albums, even if i only get hi res.

My own position is that if/when the remaining space on that drive is used up the second, identical, drive used as the system disk currently has 700GB free, so I could fit maybe half as many albums again on there - and I know I will never fill that, as I only buy music that I deinitely want to play again, and again, with new things that grab me not being frequent. (Already with 1200 albums most only gets played very infrequently!)

Derelict posted:

Hi nbpf, correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a NAS with say, 4x 3TB drives running in RAID (meaning 4 copies of the same files) be pretty failsafe? 

I think for the moment I will be okay with the 1TB I have , which I will try get backing up to an external usb drive. When this is maxed out and I feel like spending some more dough I will go full blown NAS server. 

 

Raid is not failsafe. Yes, against the most common failure, that of a drive itself, but anything else, say an electrical surge due to a lightning strike nearby, or a virus sonehow getting in, and all drives could be taken out. At the very least you want a drive that is usually disconnected. Even better is a second one, in case a catastriphic failure happens while one is connected.

I do use a NAS as a backup (but not raid), only because I still have my old one (now installed in a place where its noise isn’t an issue): used for serving various non-music things, s a second drive in it is my first backup, done whenever I add a new album to the collection. Then periodically - every 3-6 months - I connect one of my real backup drives which are USB drives, and back up everything from the NAS including the music, take it to work where I store it just to be in a different location. This means that even if my house burnt down I would still have my music collection, which is something that would be a real challenge, hard work and take a lot of time to rebuild purely through insurance coughing up to buy the albums again. I don’t see this as a chore, gut as a benefit - How wonderful to be able to have a backup of my entire collection to a safe place in a box the size of my hand!

Derelict posted:

Hi nbpf, correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a NAS with say, 4x 3TB drives running in RAID (meaning 4 copies of the same files) be pretty failsafe? 

No, not at all. But don’t worry you are not alone, a lot of people get confused with this.

Firstly with RAID the data can be striped (RAID0) or mirrored (RAID1) or combinations thereof. Striping is used for performance and capacity and overall data reliability is marginally reduced on read /write. Mirroring indeed duplicates the disk structure and so allows data to be cross validated at read. In some circumstances a mirror can also be rebuilt if there is a physical disk hardware failure / replacement.

However in terms of data storage resilience, and protection against data loss neither is particularly effective. The more likely issues of RAID subsystem corruption, destructive power failure, host system error or user error can render all the data lost, whether mirrored or not.

Therefore RAID systems need to be backed up, if you want a backup copy of your data. You might decide your ripped CDs masters are sufficient backup, and if you loose your RAID then you can re rip... perhaps ok for small libraries, but larger libraries could take weeks or months to restore. Therefore most keep a backup. Consumer NAS systems generally have a host of backup options for this purpose.

And yes I learnt the hard way a few years ago... my RAID controller got zapped in a powercut, and took out my mirrors. I now keep an automated weekly backup of most of my NAS shares.