Bi-amping with SUPERNAIT 2 and NAP 200 DR

I’d suggest that the advantages are non existent. If you really want to improve things, swap the SN2 for a 282/250DR or 282/300DR. 

This is an interesting one as I have 2 dealers near me that highly recommend it!

havent heard to comment however. 

I haven't tried it with that combination but I have with SU/180 and SU/250 and Linn MISOs. I am told that the results are very speaker specific - function of crossover design and how power hungry they are but I'm no expert.

My findings:

SU pre-out into 250 > SU bi-amp 250 > SU bi-amp 180 > SU pre-out 180 > SU

In all bi-amp cases the isobarik bass units were power separately from the other drivers (MISOs are 4 way designs).

My tentative explanation of the results above is that there were generally advantages in taking the load of the bass units off the signal to the other drivers but with the regulated 250 that advantage was much reduced and then the benefit of taking the power amp load off the SU PSU became more valuable.

I had a chat with a PMC rep once and asked him why they insisted on putting biwire sockets on their speakers - something I really dislike. His answer surprised me - ‘fashion’. The latest twenty25 series don’t have them. 

Like Jedt, I was also told that the results are very speaker specific, sometimes the advantages are minimal but sometimes they can be important. And interestengly, someone at PMC suggested to bi-amp the fact.8 but until now I hadn't the opportunity to a Supernait2+NAP200dr combination.

Let's hope that someone in a following reply can solve the dilemma! :-)

I believe Fact8 need at least a 300

If you reeeaaaalllly want to improve on a SuperNait2, add a HiCap DR to it. Should yield more and cost less than NAP 200.

Biamping has benefit when the quality of the amps you have/own/prefer is sufficient but the power handling isn't. It opens up more options in terms of what you can pair a given speaker with.

It may be simpler to just pair a speaker with an amp that can drive it properly in the first place, but you may own very high end lower power amps and so biamping is preferable in that case.

All things being equal, biamping with amps that alone are sufficient to drive speakers properly gains nothing in terms of sound quality. But at the same time it almost never makes things sound worse.

So for the OP, I gues the question is whether a lone SN2 or 200 is lacking the current delivery for your speakers? If so, go for it. If not, don't bother.

Suggest upgrade to HiCap or SuperCap first then only Biamped with NAP200 for more control sound. I used SN/HiCap/NAP200/ProAc D28 before. Please used same brand and model of speaker cables ( you need 2 pairs here). For me, more control sound especially the sound stage. Try to NAP 200 connect to High Frequency Terminal of your PMC, and SN connect to the low frequency terminal. Shall give you more informative sound. Good luck.

Thank you all for your answers.

[@mention:1566878603918550], I was wondering how the connections among SN, HiCap and NAP200 were because I know that HiCap could be connected to both SN and NAP200. I suppose HiCap was connected just to SN and then SN to NAP200. Is it correct?

Page 25 of the connection guide

https://www.naimaudio.com/site...ation%20Rev%201J.pdf

Thanks ardbeg10y, I've had already seen page 25 but that's not bi-amping: speaker cables come just from NAP200.

At page 23 there is bi-amping with SN2 and NAP200 (but without HiCap).

Just connect the 200 to Hicap Socket 2. 

[@mention:4804681823084713],  for bi-amping isn't it possible to connect just SN2 to HiCap (and NAP200 to SN2)? What difference would it make with the solution you propose (to connect both SN2 and NAP200 to HiCap)?

Think of your Supernait as a separate pre and power amp. The signal travels from the preamp into the Hicap. It then travels from the Hicap to your two power amps. One is inside the Supernait and the other is the 200. This connection keeps the signal paths and earthing correct. 

This is the correct way to do it, so that’s what I suggest you do. 

Thanks [@mention:4804681823084713] for the explanation, things are getting clearer.

So for bi-amping there would be 3 cables coming from the HiCap:

- from Socket 2 to NAP200;

- from Socket 3 to "power amp in" of the SN2;

- from Socket 4 to "pre-amp out" of the SN2.

Is it correct?

Yes, that sounds right. The 4 pin Snaics that go to the Supernait power amp and the 200 can actually be connected to any of sockets 1, 2 and 3, which are all the same. The reason for using sockets 2 and 3 is because they are closest to socket 4, and therefore offer the shortest signal path. Another bit of useless information for you!

Does anybody know which is the technical approach adopted by Naim to make work SN2 (80W) with NAP200 (70W) for bi-amping? Because of the different output power I would say when they work together they are "unbalanced".

todaca posted:

Does anybody know which is the technical approach adopted by Naim to make work SN2 (80W) with NAP200 (70W) for bi-amping? Because of the different output power I would say when they work together they are "unbalanced".

They are not 'unbalanced'  Many moons ago I bi-amped with a 60W & 100W.   All I would ask is what speakers are you driving with this combo,   & is it really worth it ??      I advise to experiment with what each amp drives,  SN2 to treble or SN2 to bass... .    

todaca posted:

Does anybody know which is the technical approach adopted by Naim to make work SN2 (80W) with NAP200 (70W) for bi-amping? Because of the different output power I would say when they work together they are "unbalanced".

Please remember that the quoted power is just that - at a stable load of 8 ohms.
In real life speakers impedance will vary quite wildly, depending on the music and frequency. So the amps will be continuously presented with varying speaker load (which would mean that the nominal power "output" of an amp will change). Bass drivers will generally demand more "power" than tweeters.

While they have different power they have the same gain, so the sound will be balanced. 

Are you finding an improvement? As I said previously, biamping can have dubious benefits. Neither the SN2 nor the 200 are really enough for the Fact 8s, and you’d be much better off with a 282/250 or 282/300. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

todaca posted:

Please remember that the quoted power is just that - at a stable load of 8 ohms.
In real life speakers impedance will vary quite wildly, depending on the music and frequency. So the amps will be continuously presented with varying speaker load (which would mean that the nominal power "output" of an amp will change). Bass drivers will generally demand more "power" than tweeters.

Hi Adam,  thats what I had in mind when I suggested trying the amps on each of the treble & bass inputs. It might be that the SN2 sounds better driving the treble section as it removes the impedance & reactance loading (power draining) swings of a bass driver around its resonance area & therefore removes any possible negative effects on the SN2 pre-amp sections performance.

But HH is right,  Fact 8's would be better with a pre/pwr rather than bi-amping.   

Thank you all, as you probably noticed I'm not so in technical stuff but your replies really clarified the doubt I had about the power of the amplifiers.

[@mention:44366773372132405], you said that bass drivers will generally demand more "power" than tweeters: this explains why in the "Connection Guide Amplification" SN2 (80W) is connected to low frequencies while NAP200 (70W) to high frequencies.

[@mention:4804681823084713], I can't tell you now because I haven't tried yet, it's scheduled in the next weeks.

You say that fact.8 would be better with a pre/power combination rather than bi-amping, suggesting at least a 282/250. But as my budget is minor, wouldn't it be an improvement to add a NAP200 and a HiCap to the SN2? I'm thinking about bi-amping also because a PMC rep suggested me to do it and, if I remember well, he also told me that fact.8 the more power they have the better they sound.

I find this interesting as it appears Bi amping is not advised generally by naim and associated followers yet several dealers I have spoken with all highly recommend it with naim amps.