Naim database portability

You need to get the Serve to convert everything to flac, or you will have files with no metadata. When you get a new upnp server you just set it to transcode to WAV and it will sound just the same as the WAV originals. There is absolutely no need to re rip. 

Good news from HH.  Given that, if I had already gone down the UnitiServe path, I would not abandon it without a reason.  It has its benefits, and the cost vs other options is moot, until you are forced to repair or replace it.

Nick

Yes, just convert everything to FLAC on the UnitiServe before transferring it to other devices and you’ll be fine. 

Some years ago, I set my HDX to convert everything to FLAC.

If I remember correctly, I simply set it to Rip to FLAC, it then over a period of days, transcoded everything already on it to FLAC.
All future Rips are also ripped as FLAC.

All meta data was preserved and if I use the content on other devices, it works just fine.

I have now set my HDX to transcode from FLAC to WAV as it plays back and I cannot hear any difference between native WAV and transcoded FLAC to WAV.

I believe the settings on the Unitiserve are extremely similar.

It looks like encoding to FLAC on the UnitiServe replaces the WAV files, rather than creating another copy.  What I'd like to do is have another copy of the music library in FLAC format in case the UnitiServe quits working and it's not worthwhile fixing it.  I guess I can use dBPoweramp do to that.  Is there any advantage in using the UnitiServe encode-to-FLAC utility vs the dBPoweramp?

dBpoweramp (as good as it is) will not covert Naim's unique encoded "WAV" into FLAC,  that has to be done in the UnitiServe.  Once its into FLAC then dBpoweramp can work on it & covert it back to normal WAV or any other codec.  

Bill_nyc posted:

It looks like encoding to FLAC on the UnitiServe replaces the WAV files, rather than creating another copy.  What I'd like to do is have another copy of the music library in FLAC format in case the UnitiServe quits working and it's not worthwhile fixing it.  I guess I can use dBPoweramp do to that.  Is there any advantage in using the UnitiServe encode-to-FLAC utility vs the dBPoweramp?

The point is that you must convert WAV to FLAC on the Unitiserve before copying the files to other devices, so that the metadata is still readable by non-Naim devices. Once you have everything in FLAC, you can simply use a computer to copy the files to any other device you choose, either for backup, or to play on other systems. If you do the conversion after moving the files, using dbpoweramp or whatever, it won't work.

What I would then suggest you do is set up the automatic backup on the US to a separate NAS. Then you are covered in the event of a US failure.

As a US owner is there going to be a time when I'll need to replace it. I was just hoping any issues could be fixed ad infinitum (or at least until I was dead). Is there a period when it wouldn’t be able to be fixed any more? It seems to do everything I need it to do and I can’t see filling the 2TB disc much of an issue. Apart from backing it up I don’t pay it much mind.

Bill_nyc posted:

It looks like encoding to FLAC on the UnitiServe replaces the WAV files, rather than creating another copy.  What I'd like to do is have another copy of the music library in FLAC format in case the UnitiServe quits working and it's not worthwhile fixing it.  I guess I can use dBPoweramp do to that.  Is there any advantage in using the UnitiServe encode-to-FLAC utility vs the dBPoweramp?

No, you cannot. You have been using a proprietary, undocumented format to store the metadata of your .wav rips.

Until Naim fully documents the format they are using for storing the metadata of .wav rips, there is very little chance that a third party program will be able to write a tool that converts those .wav rips to .flac without troubles.

Even if Naim would finally document the format, I doubt that dBPoweramp would develop such a conversion tool. This is a responsibility of Naim and should be best done by Naim. 

Now that you have realized the disadvantages of relying on proprietary data formats, the question is what to do next?

I personally would get out of the Naim proprietary format as soon as possible, as already suggested by many contributors. I have never owned a UnitiServe but I imagine that, even if it does not offer an "export in .flac" function, it should at least allow you to:

1) Make a backup of your current proprietary .wav files and metadata on an external drive A.

2) Replace  your current proprietary .wav files and metadata with .flac files on the UnitiServe.

3) Make a backup of your .flac file on an external drive B.

4) Restore your proprietary .wav files and metadata from the external drive A.

If the UnitiServe does not allow you to perform 1-4, then you will have to decide whether to stick to the proprietary .wav files and metadata or to replace them with .flac files.

Without knowing how good (or how bad) the UnitiServe is at replacing the proprietary .wav files and metadata with .flac files, this is a difficult call.

Perhaps you could try converting a few albums (after having secured your original files) before you mass convert your whole collection.

You can create imbedded tags for WAVs from the file names using MP3Tag, very easy, very quick and reliable too.

MP3tag is also free

From what I understand, the advantage of the Naim filing system is that more metadata can be stored, eg composer in addition to performing artist. This is helpful especially in the case of classical recordings.  This is why I’d like to back up rather than convert my existing files to FLAC.  Just want to be prepared in case my US quits on me — which, like Andy, I hope never happens.

is there an open source music filing system that will accomodate additional metadata as Naim’s does?

Bill_nyc posted:

From what I understand, the advantage of the Naim filing system is that more metadata can be stored, eg composer in addition to performing artist. This is helpful especially in the case of classical recordings.  This is why I’d like to back up rather than convert my existing files to FLAC.  Just want to be prepared in case my US quits on me — which, like Andy, I hope never happens.

is there an open source music filing system that will accomodate additional metadata as Naim’s does?

That's rather the opposite: the Naim proprietary database is very limited. It was developed about ten years ago and provides very poor support for classical music. You cannot for instance fill in Work, Ensemble, Form, Composition, etc. indexes. For certain idexes, it does not even support multiple values.

Open format that supports embedded metadata (.flac, .wav, .aiff, etc.) put no restrictions on the kind and number of indexes. You can use whatever indexes you please.

It goes without saying that if you fill in a non-standard index (say, for instance, "Concertmaster" or "First violin") you need a UPnP server that supports custom indexes for Concertmaster valeues to be displayed in the Naim app. MinimServer is a very flexible UPnP server that supports custom indexes: you just write a list of the indexes that you want MinimServer to show in the MinimServer configuration window.

If you have a limited understanding of file formats and methods of organising and tagging a music collection, the user guide of MinimServer is an excellent and comprehensive source of information. Just go to the MinimServer webpage and follow "Classical music", "Take control of your tagging" or "Intelligent browsing".

I’ll peruse the MinimServer site.  Thanks.

Great thread - I'm thinking along the same lines myself.

Is there a way of transcoding just a single album to try this out, or is it an all or nothing process?

Allan

... just to clarify, I used the wrong term in my previous post ...

I meant to say "converting" rather than transcoding";

i.e. can Naim desktop application be used to convert a single album from .wav to flacc (I'm presuming there's nothing on the Nserv IOS app since I haven't ever seen anything like this on that app)?

thanks,

Allan

Allan, you can convert individual albums from WAV to FLAC using N-Serve for Mac, possibly also on the Windows DTC but I haven't used that. Then set the US to transcode to WAV and your streamer will never know!

Allan Milne posted:

 

... just to clarify, I used the wrong term in my previous post ..

I meant to say "converting" rather than transcoding";

I do not know the Naim desktop application but in a Linux system, you can convert all .flac files of a folder and of its sub-folders into .wav files from the command line with the command

  find . -name '*.wav' -exec bash -c 'flac "$1"; rm "$1"' -- {} \;

The other way round, you can convert all .wav files of a folder and of its sub-folders into .flac files with

  find . -name '*.flac' -exec bash -c 'flac -d "$1"; rm "$1"' -- {} \;

Just put a single file in a folder and run the command in that folder.

For convenience and reuse, you typically want to save the commands in suitable "find_convert_wav_to_flac" and "find_convert_flac_to_wav" files and then just execute those files.

'For convenience and reuse' just get the Unitiserve to do it!

Reading this thread with interest as I am in exactly the same situation as Bill_Nyc, in that I have an old fully functioning UnitiServe with everything stored in .WAV.

However, my meta data needs are very simple. All I need is Album, Artist, Track names and cover art. I am not interested in knowing who played third violin on Beethoven’s fifth, or who played maracas on Sympathy for the Devil. 

So my question is a variant on the original post; given that my meta data needs are so simple, can I assume that the UnitiServe library ( I back up regularly) will be readily portable in the event of the demise of my UnitiServe ?

Thanks, 

Paul

blythe posted:

 

I have now set my HDX to transcode from FLAC to WAV as it plays back and I cannot hear any difference between native WAV and transcoded FLAC to WAV.

I believe the settings on the Unitiserve are extremely similar.

On the US, it looks like  the setting for transcoding to WAV on the fly in the is found under Tools/System Settings/Naim UPnP Server, where the setting is "Transcoding" and the option is "44.1kHz WAV".  Do I have that right? 

The other options are: "Auto", "Native", "Decode", "24 bit / 96 kHz", and "24 bit / 48 kHz".

PBenny1066 posted:

Reading this thread with interest as I am in exactly the same situation as Bill_Nyc, in that I have an old fully functioning UnitiServe with everything stored in .WAV.

However, my meta data needs are very simple. All I need is Album, Artist, Track names and cover art. I am not interested in knowing who played third violin on Beethoven’s fifth, or who played maracas on Sympathy for the Devil. 

So my question is a variant on the original post; given that my meta data needs are so simple, can I assume that the UnitiServe library ( I back up regularly) will be readily portable in the event of the demise of my UnitiServe ?

Thanks, 

Paul

If you replace the UnitiServe with a Naim server and restore from your backup, you should be fine. If you want to use the Naim CD rips in any other circumstances you will need them to be converted to FLAC on the UnitiServe before trying to use them. 

Bill_nyc posted:

blythe posted:

 

I have now set my HDX to transcode from FLAC to WAV as it plays back and I cannot hear any difference between native WAV and transcoded FLAC to WAV.

I believe the settings on the Unitiserve are extremely similar.

On the US, it looks like  the setting for transcoding to WAV on the fly in the is found under Tools/System Settings/Naim UPnP Server, where the setting is "Transcoding" and the option is "44.1kHz WAV".  Do I have that right? 

The other options are: "Auto", "Native", "Decode", "24 bit / 96 kHz", and "24 bit / 48 kHz".

Set it to 'decode' and you will get WAV.

Edit - you can set it to 44.1 WAV and that will also transcode FLAC to WAV, but if you have any Hi-Res files they will all be transcoded to 16/44.

Bill_nyc posted:

blythe posted:

 

I have now set my HDX to transcode from FLAC to WAV as it plays back and I cannot hear any difference between native WAV and transcoded FLAC to WAV.

I believe the settings on the Unitiserve are extremely similar.

On the US, it looks like  the setting for transcoding to WAV on the fly in the is found under Tools/System Settings/Naim UPnP Server, where the setting is "Transcoding" and the option is "44.1kHz WAV".  Do I have that right? 

The other options are: "Auto", "Native", "Decode", "24 bit / 96 kHz", and "24 bit / 48 kHz".

On my HDX, using n-Serve on my Mac, I go into Maintenance / UPnP / UPnP Settings / Transcode Media Types (it's a drop down menu)
Against FLAC, I have set it to "True" which means all FLAC files are transcoded to WAV on playback.

I took a screen shot but can't remember how to post it here. 

Unless this works:  

If it helps, here's a screenshot of N-Serve showing the relevant settings page. When you select 'Transcoding' a description of the different options appears in the box at the bottom. 

ChrisSU posted:

> If you want to use the Naim CD rips in any other circumstances you will need them to be converted to FLAC on the UnitiServe before trying to use them. <

One exception, I've found, is Roon. I've copied all my UnitiServe WAV files onto a 2TB hard disk of the Intel NUC I use for Roon Core. No issues at all. The 12V linear power supply that formerly fed the UnitiServe now powers the Intel NUC.

Bonus: playback from the Roon Core (via USB into an Intona USB isolator then a Metrum Pavane DAC) betters playback from the UnitiServe (via S/PDIF into same DAC). Clarity improves as does smoothness ; violins benefit noticeably. No loss of musical engagement moving from the UnitiServe to the NUC.

The rest of the system is the SuperNait2 and Graham Audio LS5/9 speakers, wired with BIS Audio Vivat speaker cables.

Jan