Kudos Super 20a vs PMC 25 23

Popeye posted:

So guys I have my first dealer demo of a few speakers at the weekend. 

I will be listening to...

PMC 25 23

Proac D20R

Spendor A6

Totem Sky Tower. 

Subject to me ears, can anyone advise if all of these speakers are actually an upgrade over and above my current Kef R500’s or are they more a sideways move?

Until you've heard them in your own room and system, you will never know. 

ChrisSU posted:

Popeye posted:

So guys I have my first dealer demo of a few speakers at the weekend. 

I will be listening to...

PMC 25 23

Proac D20R

Spendor A6

Totem Sky Tower. 

Subject to me ears, can anyone advise if all of these speakers are actually an upgrade over and above my current Kef R500’s or are they more a sideways move?

Until you've heard them in your own room and system, you will never know. 

That’s why I said subject to my ears Chris, the fact that all of the above are about £1000 more expensive is there likely to be more expensive parts and better engineering in all of the above of the Kefs?

My contribution here may not be useful but thought I'd post. Most of the time, impressions based on an audition at the dealers will not be the same as the listening experience at home. Also, one may find satisfaction for several months but over time, the flaws or shortcomings of the speaker may start to show up.

I used to own the PMC LB1 Signatures many years ago (bought from a local dealer) and have listened to several large PMCs at the dealers IB1 upwards. A friend used to own the EB1i and I have listened to it before (he has upgraded to large Wilson speakers several years ago). I don't have experience with the current PMC models but based on my previous experience with the old PMC models which have their own house sound, I won't be going back to the PMCs as I find the presentation to be bass heavy with a lack of detail at the top-end. That's what my friend who owned the EB1i thought as well after he upgraded to the Wilsons. In the end it's all down to personal preference so take the above with a grain of salt. 

Personally I would more inclined to pay more attention to the Proac D20R, Spendors and Kudos. 

Popeye posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Popeye posted:

So guys I have my first dealer demo of a few speakers at the weekend. 

I will be listening to...

PMC 25 23

Proac D20R

Spendor A6

Totem Sky Tower. 

Subject to me ears, can anyone advise if all of these speakers are actually an upgrade over and above my current Kef R500’s or are they more a sideways move?

Until you've heard them in your own room and system, you will never know. 

That’s why I said subject to my ears Chris, the fact that all of the above are about £1000 more expensive is there likely to be more expensive parts and better engineering in all of the above of the Kefs?

Room and system synergy trumps better engineering every time in my books. 

As already mentioned in another on-going thread. Floor-mounted speakers will (probably) be more critical in positioning and room interaction. Then (hypothetically) rear - ported will need more space from a a back wall. Unforunately, in practice nothing will be absolute and only in-house demo will really let you know what works. Fwiw, I was not able to demo speakers (limited mobility), and after alot of study, chose Harbeth 30.1 (with fingers crossed) partly from reviews and also an assumption that a front port would be less critical to placement seems to have worked for me. Any way, happy hunting ,hope You find a good match.

hungryhalibut posted:

Popeye posted:

Thanks guys

on another note what are people’s opinions on buying ex demo speakers as opposed to new. 

Also ignoring the listening test is both the PMC 25 23 and kudos super 20 a good enough in the long term for future black box upgrades and what is the likely point in black boxes upgrades that the speakers will warrant upgrading again. 

Cheers

Having owned the previous version of the PMCs, the twenty.23, I’d say that the S20 is the better speaker and that it is a lot more upgrade-proof. They are more pricey than the PMCs but there are a few ex demo or used ones at dealers. 

Having owned both 20.23 and 25.23, I'd not even bother extrapolating here based on just the 20.23s. The 25.23 is so fundamentally different in many areas that knowing how a 20.23 sounds doesn't give a good approximation on the newer 25.23s. 

Now whether the 25.23 is better than the 20.23 is another matter. I think it is a fair bit ahead. But the bigger problem is that they just sound so different in character from each other it can make comparing difficult.

To the OP, I'd not recommend any speaker at all. It will really be down to what dealers within travelling distance can make available. Almost any speaker in that price range should respond well the future upgrades. Mine are by a long way, the cheapest part of my system and I don't feel like they are holding back the system. I'm sure the same is true for other speakers too providing you like the sound.

@PopEye - looks like you went for the Totem Sky Towers.

Which speakers did you audition that it beat? I'm looking at Totem Sky, PMC 25.23 and Totem Signature Ones...

MangoMonkey posted:

@PopEye - looks like you went for the Totem Sky Towers.

Which speakers did you audition that it beat? I'm looking at Totem Sky, PMC 25.23 and Totem Signature Ones...

Hi Mango

thats correct. I auditioned PMC 25 23. ProAc 20r, Spendor A7’s, Sky Towers and Totem Tribe Towers. 

Both Totems were amazing and were incredible to my ears. The Tribes just didn’t seem that much better for the extra £££ in my opinion. The imaging the Totems throw out is incredible and catches you by surprise. The off axis response is staggering. 

Was within about 30 seconds with them I said wow and astounded butyl what they could do and the control they had. You don’t notice the tweeter and it’s like one unit. I don’t know why but maybe because of the 1st order crossover. Apparently both drivers cross over at frequencies that other manufacturers do not. 

The hearing is believing and I bet the signatures are incredible. 

Mango

Recently swapped out Kudos Super 20A for Totem Signature One's, as Popeye suspects the Sig's are excellent (my room etc.etc), highly recommend a listen

Reason for change, room interaction with the floorstanders so went standmount, working out great. Kudos is a good speaker though.

Paul

 I heard those yesterday too. They were very good.

Mango, what stands were they on, Totem or other???

Epos stands. Apparently, Totem does not make stands - but  I find that hard to believe.

My new Totem Forest Signatures running of a Nova, a lovely combination and reportedly great all the way up to the 500 series, so well future proofed for a lotto jackpot.

@Mike Sullivan - I make it out to New Zealand about once every few years. I have family in Auckland. I'll give you a holler when I'm in town next.