inversion of the polarity

I think what you are saying is that the left channel goes to the right speaker, and the right channel goes to the left speaker? So you should just be seeing a mirror image of the stereo image. Not something I would consider a big problem usually, although I suppose if you listen to orchestral music, it might seem wrong to hear the violins to your right. On the odd occasions I have experienced this, I have not felt that there was any effect on sound quality.

I guess this is probably a particularly common occurrence with Naim amp users, due to the output sockets on their amps being the wrong way round by design. 

yes, it’s that Chrissu ( left channel goes to the right speaker).  I don’t know why i prefer this inversion, but good to hear that’s not a big problem.   I feel like a better fluency and prat.

How is your EAR pre connected to the 300 (looking at your profile) ?

You might be correcting your left to right from further up the chain.

Inversion of polarity is usually changing the black and red outputs of the same channel.  Some amps do this by leaving out the circuit.

You can check left right inversion if you play either a test recording or something with positioning of something L-R that is known (there was a thread a few months earlier this year with otgers querying their setups,which may help both assess if your whole system is correct, and any implications if not. See: Are speakers connected to amp correctly? and Made in Japan is it just me?

TOBYJUG posted:

How is your EAR pre connected to the 300 (looking at your profile) ?

You might be correcting your left to right from further up the chain.

Inversion of polarity is usually changing the black and red outputs of the same channel.  Some amps do this by leaving out the circuit.

i have nap 250dr now. I had to sell the nap300d and rega rp10 for financial reasons.

The connection is rca/rca ( red and black) to din/xlr.

The very good surprise is that i also prefer the nap 250dr in my system.

Innocent Bystander posted:

You can check left right inversion if you play either a test recording or something with positioning of something L-R that is known (there was a thread a few months earlier this year with otgers querying their setups,which may help both assess if your whole system is correct, and any implications if not. See: Are speakers connected to amp correctly? and Made in Japan is it just me?

the outputs of the nap250dr are “ left” and “right “.   But strangely, right from amp to left speaker, and left to right speaker, give a bit better sound.

A question was whether the channels had been reversed somewhere before the power amp. If using vinyl the cartridge is a possible culprit. 

However if channels are only swapped once, giving a reversed soundstage, there is no obvious reason for that to sound better, indeed rather odd if that is universal with all music!

French Rooster posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

How is your EAR pre connected to the 300 (looking at your profile) ?

You might be correcting your left to right from further up the chain.

Inversion of polarity is usually changing the black and red outputs of the same channel.  Some amps do this by leaving out the circuit.

i have nap 250dr now. I had to sell the nap300d and rega rp10 for financial reasons.

The connection is rca/rca ( red and black) to din/xlr.

The very good surprise is that i also prefer the nap 250dr in my system.

Welcome!

Timmo1341 posted:

French Rooster posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

How is your EAR pre connected to the 300 (looking at your profile) ?

You might be correcting your left to right from further up the chain.

Inversion of polarity is usually changing the black and red outputs of the same channel.  Some amps do this by leaving out the circuit.

i have nap 250dr now. I had to sell the nap300d and rega rp10 for financial reasons.

The connection is rca/rca ( red and black) to din/xlr.

The very good surprise is that i also prefer the nap 250dr in my system.

Welcome!

the 300dr was more impressive on some tracks, with bigger soundstage and more weight and bass. But it was a bit too much sometimes in my system.  The other aspect is that the 250dr is a bit more agile and quicker, with better prat on my system.  The 300dr was a bit too heavy and slow.

Gosh, I’ve never heard a 300 described as heavy and slow, quite the opposite. But of course, with an EAR preamp, the power amps may or may not be working as intended. 

Hmmn..the 300 DR may not have the finesse of other amps, but no way is it slow. It’s a great amp if you give it the goods.

How big is your room? I wonder if there is an issue with room acoustics that is more evident with the 300. 

hungryhalibut posted:

Gosh, I’ve never heard a 300 described as heavy and slow, quite the opposite. But of course, with an EAR preamp, the power amps may or may not be working as intended. 

my speakers are easy load and my room is not so big ( 19m2).  The sound was sometimes too heavy in my system.  The 250dr is a bit quicker, perhaps the 300dr is not slow, but i find the 250dr more agile.   

I will not say the 250dr is better, because it is not.   But i prefer the balance of the sound with the nap250 dr and my ear 912 preamp.

At the dealer place, with the 252 / 250 dr or 300dr, on apertura speakers, the 300dr was more impressive. It was the reason i bought it first.  But on some tracks i found the 250 dr a bit faster too.

French Rooster posted

 

the outputs of the nap250dr are “ left” and “right “.   But strangely, right from amp to left speaker, and left to right speaker, give a bit better sound.

Is that labelled right and left or on the right and left when considered from the front of the amp?

Have you tried using the proper arrangement of left to left and right to right, but sitting with your back to the speakers ?

just another option to try *L*

benjy posted:

Have you tried using the proper arrangement of left to left and right to right, but sitting with your back to the speakers ?

just another option to try *L*

You are Jimmy Hughes and I claim my £5.

yeti42 posted:

French Rooster posted

 

the outputs of the nap250dr are “ left” and “right “.   But strangely, right from amp to left speaker, and left to right speaker, give a bit better sound.

Is that labelled right and left or on the right and left when considered from the front of the amp?

it is labeled right and left at the back of the amp, on the rca outputs.

benjy posted:

Have you tried using the proper arrangement of left to left and right to right, but sitting with your back to the speakers ?

just another option to try *L*

the left speaker must be the left if i am watching it, not?

TOBYJUG posted:

How is your EAR pre connected to the 300 (looking at your profile) ?

You might be correcting your left to right from further up the chain.

Inversion of polarity is usually changing the black and red outputs of the same channel.  Some amps do this by leaving out the circuit.

ah ok.  So no inversion of the polarity. Just connecting output labeled right on the amp to the left speaker and left to right.

hungryhalibut posted:

Gosh, I’ve never heard a 300 described as heavy and slow, quite the opposite. But of course, with an EAR preamp, the power amps may or may not be working as intended. 

That to me sounds less bizarre than someone claiming inverting the channels makes the sound better: if that isn't enough to discredit this entire audiophile business, I don't know what would be. :-P 

ricsimas posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Gosh, I’ve never heard a 300 described as heavy and slow, quite the opposite. But of course, with an EAR preamp, the power amps may or may not be working as intended. 

That to me sounds less bizarre than someone claiming inverting the channels makes the sound better: if that isn't enough to discredit this entire audiophile business, I don't know what would be. :-P 

what are you doing in this forum, if you don’t believe in audiophile “ business “.    I was told by the dealer that my speakers cables may have inversed channel in their construction.  It may explain that.   As for 300dr subject, someone in this forum found the nap 300dr too heavy and bass boomy for his system.  He preferred the 250dr too.

There are some more weird claimings in the audiophile area:  some find black speakers better sounding than white ones.   A naim member preferred the 552/nait 5 vs 552/500 combo.  Just examples....

ricsimas posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Gosh, I’ve never heard a 300 described as heavy and slow, quite the opposite. But of course, with an EAR preamp, the power amps may or may not be working as intended. 

That to me sounds less bizarre than someone claiming inverting the channels makes the sound better: if that isn't enough to discredit this entire audiophile business, I don't know what would be. :-P 

To be fair, FR was asking for an explanation of something that was, to him (and me!), unexpected. Who are you seeking to discredit for the fact that he asked an innocent question?   

French Rooster posted:

i have nap 250dr now. I had to sell the nap300d and rega rp10 for financial reasons.

 

I am sorry to hear of your financial difficulties. I hope nothing more serious than rationalising your hifi.

French Rooster posted

what are you doing in this forum, if you don’t believe in audiophile “ business “.    I was told by the dealer that my speakers cables may have inversed channel in their construction.  It may explain that.   As for 300dr subject, someone in this forum found the nap 300dr too heavy and bass boomy for his system.  He preferred the 250dr too.

There are some more weird claimings in the audiophile area:  some find black speakers better sounding than white ones.   A naim member preferred the 552/nait 5 vs 552/500 combo.  Just examples....

 

I didn't say I don't believe in the audiophile business, only that the notion of attributing hi-fi significance to channel inversion doesn't make much sense if you think of how these things work.

Think of the nature of the situation: if you're playing a true mono signal that is exactly the same on both sides, if you invert the channels nothing could possibly change in the musical experience as it would still be the same content coming from either speaker. If you're playing stereo, it would take some weird sort of channel imbalance for it to sound "more open" when in one setup vs. the opposite, and even then it would be different for one recording to the next as the mixes change. 

As such, a persistent preference for one over the other doesn't make any sense. This is not like, say, cables, where opinions are strong but someone can make the case that there are things we don't know how to measure, or your comparison of 552/nait vs. 500 where things will for sure sound different. Where there is difference, there can be a preference.

In the case you described it's not a matter of preference as there is no phenomenon that could explain why playing the same content from inverted speakers would make a difference - it pretty much has to be in your head (except for visceral reactions to violins in the wrong side as described before) or if you are the one individual whose constitution somehow allows them to instinctively "know" whether the guitars panned to the right or to the left is right.

We would have to believe in that ability and in your dealer's comments for it to make sense, unless he/she was talking about either phase or polarity, not channels. 

I thought it was a known fact that on a 250 DR amp,standing in front of the rack,the right side speaker terminals are for the left speaker,and vice versa.The reasoning being,originally the amps were made to sit with the back side facing out.With the amp/rack sitting between the speakers,the cables will cross each other behind the rack.You do have to be careful soldering Naca5,if you are using the supplied Naim plugs,otherwise you might get one upside down.If you go to the Naim website,the 250 clearly is labelled right and left.