Upgrade

Posted by: TOB on 10 November 2018

I know these conversations have been done to death, but a little advise please before I embark on upgrading my Cd5xs???, from what I’ve been reading on the naim sites, I feel I am one of few who runs a cdp as a main source, so now I want a piece of the action with streaming, but the pace of technology is dewildering, I have been happily buying cds, and enjoying my music without a care in the world to what’s happing else where in the audiofile world, but it seems streaming devices can deliver a better sound than cd??, well, according to what I have been reading they can, so which set up is worth a listen?, I run my Cd5xs/Hugo 2, Supernait2/ Hcap, I am however quite attached to the SN2, Hugo, and hicap,  so suggestions please, sorry to take you over old ground, but it will help before I spend hard earned cash. Regards.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Mike-B

Do you intend to sell the CD5 & rip all your CD's or just go half way by keeping the CD's & web-stream from one or other of the subscription services.   

The basic's are:   You will need a streaming player,  ND5xs is the same case size as CD5,  or maybe better an NDX is an excellent match performance wise & visually with SN2.   You will also need a NAS (network attached storage) & a suitably sized HDD (hard disc) to store ripped CD's on.  The NAS will need connecting via ethernet to your wireless router,  & although the streamer can connect over wireless,  I would go for ethernet every time.     The CD's can be ripped on a computer (laptop, PC or Mac) with an internal or external DVD drive.   The computer will need ripping software & nothing better than dBpoweramp.                             

If you are not going to rip the CD's & stream from one of the subscription services,  you don't need the NAS or ripping software. 

You will need a 'control point' installed with the Naim app (free),  this is typically a iOS tablet or smart phone or the Android equivalent.

After you taken in the basic's,  there is a lot to absorb,  forum search & your dealer and/or a nieghbour buddy that has a system are all useful learning places.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Bert Schurink

Mike already gave you a good answer. The NDX would be a good tip to have a great source for streaming. Most people who say goodbye to their CD players are very happy with the additional level of comfort in replay it brings.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Huge

One of the Sonore Rendu series or one of the SOtM sMS-xxx series network players into your Hugo 2.
Add a Synology or QNAP NAS drive, a switch and rip all your CD onto the NAS drive.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Hmack
Huge posted:

One of the Sonore Rendu series or one of the SOtM sMS-xxx series network players into your Hugo 2.
Add a Synology or QNAP NAS drive, a switch and rip all your CD onto the NAS drive.

I pretty much agree with Huge. I have run a Sonore microRendu in one of my systems for a few years now. If I was buying now, I'd go for the Sonore ultraRendu. The SOtm sMS 200ultra is by all accounts just as good if not possibly a little better (I haven't heard one) , but is also quite a bit more expensive.  

However, there are a few caveats and things to bear in mind with this approach:

1) You will need a decent linear power supply to power the Sonore ultraRendu or SOtm sMS 200ultra, which bumps up the price quite a bit. Something like the (correct voltage) latest version of the 'sbooster' at around £250 to £300 would be required. The cheap power supplies you sometimes get bundled with the devices for around £50 just aren't good enough.

2) These devices can be quite fiddly to set up, and the instructions that come with the Rendu devices (I imagine that SOtM will be pretty much the same) are not always entirely clear, and some of the set up process is not always entirely intuitive to begin with. To counter this, once they are set up they are pretty robust, and they do perform very well. Added to that, Jesus from the Sonore support desk is extremely helpful if you were to run into any difficulties. He has just remotely sorted out a problem I have had streaming MQA files to my new DAC through my microRendu over the past couple of days that was driving me mad and that I almost certainly wouldn't have resolved on my own.

3) Up until recently, you would have had to use something like the Lumin or MConnect apps to control music playback on the Rendu/Hugo. However, a relatively recent firmware upgrade means that you can now also use Linn Kazoo which I like better, and which can be used on both iPad and Windows 10 PCs or laptops.

On the other hand if you choose the other route, you can pick up a 2nd hand NDX relatively cheaply these days, and connecting this to the Hugo DAC would be very much easier - it would simply be plug 'n' play. You would then use the Naim control app (preferably on an iPad) which I also like. I have never compared the NDX as a streamer/renderer with one of the Sonore or SOtM devices, but I suspect it won't be very far away in respect of sound quality. My microRendu to my ears was better than the ND5XS as a streamer/renderer with my old Hugo (now defunct), but some say that the NDX is better than the ND5XS as streamer renderer only. With this option you would also get to compare the NDX DAC with the Hugo. Who knows, you may prefer it?

And as Huge states you would also need to add a Synology or QNAP NAS - there are other makes but most people (including me) like these best.    

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Simon-in-Suffolk

The NDX as a streamer transport is top class... to my ears not much between it and the NDS... the ND5XS falls quite a bit short in my experience... it’s in the PSU, electrical isolation/spacing, DSP and clock precision.. but don’t confuse with streamer-DAC where the NDS is significantly ahead of the NDX.

Certainly the Hugo (original.. and in my books by far the best)  really needs a top class transport and high end NAC to get the most out of it.. what I discovered from my Hugo with my 552 was fascinating.. The Hugo 2 doesn’t have the same level of natural insight (to my ears) and so almost certainly less demanding on NAC and transport to get the best from it.. again in my experience the Hugo2 plateaued out  lower down the Naim hierarchy.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by TOB

Yes, I to was thinking Ndx, which would marry nicely with the Sn2, and I can connect the Hugo as well, I just needed some confirmation on SQ, it has to be better than the Cdp, if not, and I still insist on changing my cdp, I would have to consider a total system change, which will take me into the territory of NDS, NDX2, 272, 250 you get the picture, which has been discussed at length on here. As for ripping my cd collection, i would just simply sack cd replay totally, and discs, and listen via naim app from my iPad, of course this is the simplest solution, and I like simple, I will have a listen to a ndx side by side with my cdp and see, if iam not blown away i will contemplate the alternatives. Thankyou for some excellent and detailed reply’s. Regards.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Bart
TOB posted:

As for ripping my cd collection, i would just simply sack cd replay totally, and discs, and listen via naim app from my iPad, of course this is the simplest solution, and I like simple

A very positive move in the experience of me and countless others. 

The “core” of streaming technology has not changed much in years. If you rip your cds to flac the files should be useful for many years to come. 

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by MDS

TOB - you've been offered some good advice on how to implement a streaming solution but so far no-one has tried to answer the other question you posed: 'can streaming solutions deliver a better sound than CD?'.  Views are a bit mixed here.  Indeed some like both.  For my part, until recently I hadn't heard a streaming solution that bettered my then CDX2 into nDAC/555PS; and I tried it against a NDS/555PSDR.  I say recently because I've now heard the ND555/555PSDR and that was mighty good and there seems to be a growing opinion that the ND555 outperforms the CD555.  But we're talking top-end, very expensive solutions here.  I note that you say you've been enjoying your CD source so you really need a demo to be sure any streaming solution will improve on what you've got.  Don't assume that streaming is automatically better.  

However, streaming does offer a level of convenience, ease of access, and savings in CD storage space that many feel justifies the switch.  But you would be trading the low-maintenance and predictable simplicity offered by CD. This aspect warrants careful thought alongside seeking a performance improvement. 

 

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by TOB

Simon in Suffolk, you say the ndx is a top class streamer transport, can I assume based on that, the ndx will completely out perform the Cd5xs/ Hugo dac?, looking at cost difference, it should by a long way? and if the SN2 adds the pre & power, what other Upgrades can improve further. Regards.

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by TOB

MDS. I will definitely listen to a few streamers, but my quess is, most retailers have strarted to off load their ndx & nds x demos, however I won’t buy blind, so I may be some time before I manage to scratch this streamer itch, of course cost plays its part, but most of us end up paying more than we thought we would. Regards

Posted on: 10 November 2018 by Chag...

A standalone NDX will not outperform a nDAC, Hugo or any other higher in the range streamer of course. Mind you that the Hugo has only one RCA digital input socket. I wouldn't use the Toslink input socket.  :]

Chag -