What's the score with Linn?

Paul Stephenson posted:

Long live the UK audio industry,a shadow of its former self.....

What went wrong?!

linn is very fine British hi fi and so is Chord electronics

just heard a full linn rig and it sounded superb to me

I know I am retired and have time but thats a long story but lots of factors from audio being numbers 2 or 3 on the must have list to now about number 50 changes in technology, poor sound from cheap systems doesnt promote buying more music, accountants having too much influence in business decisions or in some cases not enough lack of talent and so on, I guess many here will have some views.

ChrisSU posted:

Paul Stephenson posted:

Long live the UK audio industry,a shadow of its former self.....

What went wrong?!

I went to the Hi Fi news show in Windsor last Sunday and can honestly say didn't see any 20 -30 year old people.Come to think of it not many 30 -40 year olds.I would say the majority there where in the 50 -70 bracket.And talking to people like Ken Kessler,Paul Messenger and manufacturers they all thought the industry was sinking as the younger generation aren't interested so dark clouds in the future.

Tabby cat posted:

I went to the Hi Fi news show in Windsor last Sunday and can honestly say didn't see any 20 -30 year old people.Come to think of it not many 30 -40 year olds.I would say the majority there where in the 50 -70 bracket.And talking to people like Ken Kessler,Paul Messenger and manufacturers they all thought the industry was sinking as the younger generation aren't interested so dark clouds in the future.

I'm not suprised. The high end of hifi, especially, is mostly the domain of the 50+ males. That is very likely going to be the case even more in years to come as streaming becomes even more common. Hence why, I suppose, it is very improtant that Hifi companies do "keep up" with the latest trends if they are to survive.

It doesn't surprise me too much that the hifi enthusiasts we see around shows & dealers are in the older age bracket,  its only that group that have the disposable income to buy higher end audio.  Younger age groups have other financial priorities,  buying & setting up home, growing family essentials,  items TV & other electronics are more important to a family than expensive hifi ,  low cost & computer based music does the job & it does it so much better than low cost equipment did in the past,  & in the past I'm not going back that far,  10 years, or even less.

I think the number of turntable sales tells a different story, it’s mostly young people and they love it- check the progress of Rega, amazing job. Guess what my grand daughter wants for Christmas a turntable. I really believe we will see the audio business grow but on the back of streaming and Vinyl.

Paul Stephenson posted:

it’s mostly young people and they love it

Has research into buyer demographics in this area already been carried out? 

just see Audio Show in Hong Kong, on youtube.  Vast majority of young people ( 20-30 years old).   Other market for sure.    

Paul Stephenson posted:

I think the number of turntable sales tells a different story, it’s mostly young people and they love it- check the progress of Rega, amazing job. Guess what my grand daughter wants for Christmas a turntable. I really believe we will see the audio business grow but on the back of streaming and Vinyl.

And guess that my daughter is getting - a nice bright red Project - not bad for 14. Now she can stop telling on Daddy when another Naim black box comes into the house. I’m still recovering from the ‘ Mummy, guess how much that Samsung card for the Core cost?’ Ouch!

Tabby cat posted:

I went to the Hi Fi news show in Windsor last Sunday and can honestly say didn't see any 20 -30 year old people.Come to think of it not many 30 -40 year olds.I would say the majority there where in the 50 -70 bracket.And talking to people like Ken Kessler,Paul Messenger and manufacturers they all thought the industry was sinking as the younger generation aren't interested so dark clouds in the future.

 

Hi Ian, I wonder if you are reading too much into show attendances? Even among hi-fi 'enthusiasts' these events are surely a minority interest? Personally I've only ever been to two in my life, and I found both really tedious (I only went to the second one because there was a show-exclusive special offer on an RCM I wanted).

You get to trudge to a dreary venue - usually the sort of hotel David Brent would stay in - and then hear gear you'll never buy playing tunes you don't like in rooms with eyeball-scouring carpets in the company of men with no hair and impressive paunches. Even good equipment seems to sound mediocre and the music they play in those rooms seems to be uniformly dreadful - Dire Straits, bland jazz and well-recorded but insufferably drab acoustic music. I would go (and have gone) to a dealer event as they are an opportunity to hear a new bit of kit (Linn are good at this, especially with their artist-themed nights, which always seem to be packed).

But shows? I think they're a huge turnoff for most people, of all ages. If you go to one of the afrementioned Linn events, or Colleen Murphy's regular "Classic Album Sunday" shows, you see plenty of younger people there, enjoying good music played on fine equipment - and in the case of CAS, they'll pay for the privilege. In London, the Japanese 'hi-fi bar' or 'audiophile cafe/coffee shop' concept is starting to really take off, and these places are a great opportunity for hi-fi brands to demonstrate their playback prowess in relaxed, informal and attractive environment.

Old fashioned hi-fi shows are dying, I'd say; not hi-fi itself, or the love of good sound.

I am 32 and have been into hifi since I was 16 when I got my first NAD system!

My twin 14 year old sons love HiFi as we know it and come to the shows with me (Bristol) most years. One of them is just about to inherit my old but mint CD5i, a brand new Onkyo 9010 (UK) amp and Q acoustics standmount speakers. Being excited at the thought of such a system for them is an understatement. Both sons aspire to the thought of owning top notch Naim or Rega systems in the future!

To say that the youngsters are not interested in high quality music playback through first class systems is not true, well not from my experience anyway.

Stephen, glad to hear your sons share your passion for great HiFi. I would suggest that their interest was stirred as you have exposed them to great music reproduced by great HiFi.

Other youngsters don't have the same exposure and their interests are pulled in other directions, music often important but through MP3/Phone and buds, also with access, dare I say it, to 'free' music. Social media, texting, video gaming (often online), online media/TV are all attractions that simply weren't prevalent or even in existence (depending on your age) when we were young. As Paul S. sayes '….audio being numbers 2 or 3 on the must have list to now about number 50….'.

As well as exposure to great HiFi, I think you also need an inherent love of music in order to commit large sums of disposable income to purchase great HiFi gear. It was ever thus I guess, but these days there are many more pastimes attracting our youngsters in a variety of directions.

Music is definitely important to new generations but I think there is an issue that it is so easily accessible and payment is not always at the point of consumption (ie bundled in a data agreement, spotify etc) or free via YouTube etc that I'm not sure people 'value' music the same way. As a teenager all the music I listened to (other than on the radio) I paid for and I think I also therefore invested in the kit that played it. I was never that bothered about the technology but I needed equipment specifically to play my vinyl/tapes/CDs etc so I invested in hiFi.

Nowadays my 'phone could do all of my music I guess, plus a multitude of other tasks so I think I'd be less likely if i was a young adult to invest money in a device that only really did one thing, albeit in higher quality.

Bruce

@Bart,

The big fall out? Well, Naim and Linn were once closely aligned with Linn making the LP12 and speakers and Naim making the amps. Julian and Ivor then fell out after Linn started making amplifiers breaking the close relationship. I am sure others could add detail, or perhaps do a forum search.

Stu

Naim even made Linn’s phono stage, the Linn Linnk. 

naim armaguedon ps for lp12 too.  

I think it’s worth noting linn sounds slightly different than naim.... or quite different. Naim seems to present music as if sitting on the front row... linn maybe a few rows back... but sounds musical too .

linn uses switch mode power supplies compared to Naim’s linear ones... even the 30w UnitiQute is capable of huge amounts of controlled bass !

both companies main unique selling point is Pace Rhythm and Timing

I suppose I chose Naim but could easily having started my journey with Linn.... or Rega....

Naim do offer that ability to service almost any piece of equipment  dating back to the first naim amplifier

But I’ve personally experienced linn and Chord electronics offering excellent backup service for their kit... I guess one has to listen and decide...

I am very grateful to have British hi fi in my life.

I think Bruce makes a good point. My iPhone, AQ dragonfly, Shure IEMs and Tidal subscription probably match or better at least the first two seperates systems I owned for SQ and certainly for choice & convenience.

Also wireless speakers (including Naim’s own) are getting very good. System 1 (for serious listening) goes in my pocket; wireless speakers- System 2 - provide background music at home. Not an irrational choice for many milennials/post-milennials. 

Olly

My dealer has stopped selling Linn because of pressure from them to sell whole systems. He said that he has a high regard for the LP12 and their cartridges but not their electronics. Personally I have an LP12 but have never heard a complete Linn system, although I did home demo some Isobariks once (way too big for the room).

stuart.ashen posted:

@Bart,

The big fall out? Well, Naim and Linn were once closely aligned with Linn making the LP12 and speakers and Naim making the amps. Julian and Ivor then fell out after Linn started making amplifiers breaking the close relationship. I am sure others could add detail, or perhaps do a forum search.

Stu

I understand that they did make up.  

I am not sure they did Strat. Linn tried to put their dealers under pressure to not stock Naim. I am unclear on the detail but it did get messy.

Stu

Well Iver went to Julian’s funeral I was once informed.  

stuart.ashen posted:

I am not sure they did Strat. Linn tried to put their dealers under pressure to not stock Naim. I am unclear on the detail but it did get messy.

Stu

It was not described to me by my then dealer as “pressure”. It was explicit. Linn made it clear to my dealer that they did not wish their products to be sold in any shop which also sold Naim. That was tempered by someone else telling me it was “on display with” and then at a later night with several ex employees of various dealers in the North West there was a consistent “No, it was a definite “you’re not selling our stuff if you’re selling them”” approach. Always suspected Naim were aware of that but any concern was perhaps tempered by the fact most elected to stick with Naim and cease Linn sales. It barely seems more relaxed nowadays.

I’ve demoed much of both makes over the years. There’s much to enjoy about the Linn gear and I also see little need to disparage but for me personally I simply didn’t find it engaging and that remains the case.