Kore, Torlyte no more.

I don’t know about Torlyte but glass has a resonant frequency smack in the middle of the audible range. It also stores energy and rings so tends to impart a certain hardness to the upper frequencies when used as a support. It also tends to emphasize frequency extremes so can make it sound like there’s extended bass and upper treble but at the cost of naturalness. 

As you can see, I’m not a fan of glass as a support material. Given that every support material tends to imprint its character on the sound I tend to favour maple for its naturalness,  constrained layer damped material for its neutrality or complex bamboo laminate for its excellent price/performance

Interesting. Does that mean you eschew Fraim?

In designing the Fraim, the specific glass used was the best sounding material of all (bar one*) that were tried.

*narrowly preferred was aerospace alloy plate - the same perfectly flat stuff used to make the SL2 interface plates - but the huge cost of the material made it totally impractical. The glass was close enough in performance to make it a far more practical choice.

As I understand it, the performance of the Fraim comes from its use of glass, metal and wood, though Richard will correct me if I’m wrong. It was designed that way, whereas putting Torlyte and glass on top of an Audiotech board is always going to be a lottery. It may work, and it may not. The other problem with such a sandwich is that none of the elements are absolutely flat, so they will only touch in places and therefore will be inherently unstable. 

Being a mere mortal I'm having difficulty understanding your point. Are you saying that everything sounded better without the Torlyte under the TT ? That it was moved under another component ? Or you have more fitted under more components ?

I’m assuming ‘experimented with its extractionl’ means ‘removed it’. But who knows?

hungryhalibut posted:

As I understand it, the performance of the Fraim comes from its use of glass, metal and wood...

Yes.  The performance of Fraim wasn't down to just one particular material (although different materials of all kinds were tried), rather the overall design and all the materials working together.

Richard Dane posted:

In designing the Fraim, the specific glass used was the best sounding material of all (bar one*) that were tried.

*narrowly preferred was aerospace alloy plate - the same perfectly flat stuff used to make the SL2 interface plates - but the huge cost of the material made it totally impractical. The glass was close enough in performance to make it a far more practical choice.

Richard, I’m curious, is that like the ‘Aerolam’ stuff that Pink Triangle used? 

It's perfectly flat and even solid aluminium - same stuff used for the SL2 interface plates.  Very expensive because it's very hard to make it perfectly flat and even to such fine tolerance. There are some such pieces used in the factory for levelling kit with metal feet before packing. It's more evenly flat than a piece of glass, so perfect for the job. 

Thanks, I was just curious because I still have a PT Aerolam shelf that fits on a Sound Org. table. I keep thinking I might stick it on the rack with some Fraim cups and balls just to see if it does anything. 

Loki - 

If you had Torlyte over glass (with perhaps Fraim balls and cups between them?), then the outcome you cite doesn't surprise me. 

I tried layering the isolation under an LP12 with Tramp II on a wall-shelf and it acted to remove detail and add some smear to proceedings. Taking it back to a single glass shelf was far better. 

I understand LP12's with Tramp's 'prefer' to sit on wooden shelves/bases. This is on my to do list -  not using Torlyte but some 18mm plywood and some thicker glass for the shelf (akin to Fraim glass). Of course, YMMV in all this. 

I thought Aerolam was an aluminium honeycomb between two aluminium skins - at least, that’s what the PT sub platter is made from, as well as their shelf and some Celestion speakers - the SL600 I believe. I think it was used for the floors of helicopters. That material seems to be entirely different from the SL2 interface plates, which are solid sheets with no honeycomb to be seen. 

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m assuming ‘experimented with its extractionl’ means ‘removed it’. But who knows?

Oh HH don't be cute! Yes, dear earthlings, the Torlyte was taken away and repurposed. So we now have Audiotech with Fraim glass on cups and balls on top of the Audiotech shelf. It not only sounds better but looks better too. The thing is that before the Kore, solid base plate and DR, I felt it sounded better with the Torlyte. The Torlyte is a hangover from a setup involving Sound Organisation 3 tier metal framed stand some 12 years ago. Like most of this game it's about experimenting.

hungryhalibut posted:

I thought Aerolam was an aluminium honeycomb between two aluminium skins - at least, that’s what the PT sub platter is made from, as well as their shelf and some Celestion speakers - the SL600 I believe. I think it was used for the floors of helicopters. That material seems to be entirely different from the SL2 interface plates, which are solid sheets with no honeycomb to be seen. 

Yes, that’s the stuff. I bought the shelf with a S.O. table in about 1984, which my daughter still has. I might pinch it back from her, just to give it a try. 

I think Torlyte (and Ikea Lack tables) use a similar construction, but with different materials. 

Loki posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m assuming ‘experimented with its extractionl’ means ‘removed it’. But who knows?

Oh HH don't be cute! Yes, dear earthlings, the Torlyte was taken away and repurposed. 

Richard,

Do you have the spec and dimensions of the alloy?

Tony, no. Someone in R&D might know though.

Ok. 

Thats saved me calling some favours in

Wugged Woy posted:

Loki posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m assuming ‘experimented with its extractionl’ means ‘removed it’. But who knows?

Oh HH don't be cute! Yes, dear earthlings, the Torlyte was taken away and repurposed. 

You got a camera on Asgaard?!

I can't believe just how much better it sounds without it... I urge you to re-test those essential and experimental upgrades of yore.

'Tis true.    Things that seemed essential at one stage can be surplus to need and even hampering a later stage on the upgrade journey. Especially when it's from a home brew cottage industry that majors on the audiophile disposition of wanting a quick fix.

Better that your ears know the difference. Which might be not the case if you had never tried a Toylet.

..The Torlyte..  sorry. And no that wasnt a Freudian slip.

..I think your saying your LP12 is supported on a shelf, and then on some glass and then an AT table. So there's a spare part there - just ringing away in the audio band and storing energy. No surprise it's better without. Have you tried removing the LP 12 baseboard? I have DV xx2 myself (in an Ekos) but I've never found it sharp sounding. For a cartridge, I just think it's pretty neutral. 

Baseboard has recently been renovated from original hardboard to aluminium. Superb. The shelf has been removed, just the original audio tech top board with a frame glass on top. Sounding superb now. Torlyte begone!

... it's well worth trying to keep the DV xx2 cartridge really clean - not just the stylus. The ultra-fine cantelver can accumulate debris and this can be carefully removed with an artist's brush (you'll need a magnifying lens). Pay attention to the body as well. It keeps it working well. If your system has multiple 'rubber-footed' electronic boxes, just 'disturb' them now and again so they don't stick to their supports. Good to hear you are making progress.