What is likely to be up Naims sleeve next?

The Hobitti.... ????

Eoink, now you are just being silly.

I was actually thinking that the new Mobiliti (not a bloody scooter) would be a great way of tempting youngsters  into proper HiFi. Think about it, yoofs of today are listening to MP3s on their crappy phones with crappy ear buds. Then Dad (or Mum) buys their spotty son (or daughter) a Naim Mobiliti for Christmas (can't be too specific about the year - sorry Naim, that was below the belt).

The teenager is question is blown away by the SQ and exclaims 'Dad (or Mum as the case may be), this new Mobiliti is sick'....(I think that is the current vernacular for pukka?). The teenager, now approaching it's twenties, then investigates how he (or she) can get such great sounding choons in their bedroom. A MuSo follows next Christmas, and a Uniti the Christmas after....you get my drift.

The following year Naim are listed on the FTSE100.

Charlie, giz a job!

Charlie.......Charlie......you there?

I hope you are not the sort of MD just to take others' ideas and leave them high and dry.

Stick with me, and, as my business mentor used to say, next year we could be millionaires!

I'd love to see a simple one box amp-streamer. Even a Mu-so without speakers would be great. Would sit nicely as an AV 2-channel amp with UPnP ...  

nigelb posted:

 

A high res mobile device ..... Think Astell & Kern with knobs on.

 

 

you can't get away with making these in China!

Nigel, mobile phones dont have knobs anymore nowadays

And everything is made in China. Apple does and their products are top notch. And be nice to potential future owners of the brand

cdboy posted:

I'd love to see a simple one box amp-streamer. Even a Mu-so without speakers would be great. Would sit nicely as an AV 2-channel amp with UPnP ...  

I think Uniti range has the simple one-box-streamer-amp covered. 

The Atom even looks like a sat on qb, er qb without speakers.

iliria posted:

nigelb posted:

 

A high res mobile device ..... Think Astell & Kern with knobs on.

 

 

you can't get away with making these in China!

Nigel, mobile phones dont have knobs anymore nowadays

 

And everything is made in China. Apple does and their products are top notch. And be nice to potential future owners of the brand

But the fabrication of Apple as with most similar products is mostly automated.. the manual construction necessary for higher end Naim is quite a different proposition... I think for similar skilled manual construction I suspect all things taken into account the difference between China and U.K. product costs would not be significant...even if skilled labour is at a cost ratio of 1:4 with the U.K..  which is a multiple I use in the ICT industry.

I think active speakers may be a development .. I would have thought a natural synergy with Focal...even though personally I wish there were  other speaker manufacturers Naim were grouped with...

I was only kidding chaps…….

Popeye posted:

Thoughts on what Naim are likely to be developing next ????

Here's what needs doing to bring the offering into a marketable product range fit for 2018:

- drop the confusing ranges: classic, si, xs etc. They are a marketeers nightmare and confuse the consumer. Have one range from low to high price.

- reduce the number of products -  there are way too many.  Have a maximum of three in each range.  An entry level, mid-tier, premium.  So for example have the NAP 200, 300, 500 and drop the others.   This includes power supplies.  Three power amps, three pre amps, three power supplies, three cables etc etc.  Naim need to make it simple.

- create common names for equal products in the range: eg. The budget line might be a NAP 200 and a NAC 200 and an integrated Naic 200  with an interconnect 200 series and 200 speaker cable, a 200 power supply. It still allows upgrades so a 300 pre will improve a 200 system etc etc.

- redesign the pre-amps to eliminate the redundant recording source facia buttons.  These are a joke on a modern product in 2018, having been made redundant to 95% of hifi people 15 years ago.  

- there’s a move in hifi to fewer boxes - Naim's multi-box approach is feeling out of kilter with wider trends in high-end.  Create a top of the range integrated amp to match the 500 and Naim shouldn’t be apologetic for a one-box solution which has always been the marketing message in the past (the message from Naim re integrated high-end amps has always been "you really should have 4 boxes but if you MUST have one here it is")

- invest in streaming so it works, and either do a deal so Roon is integrated in everything or at least make streaming devices work flawlessly at the Ui level and be as good as roon.

- most difficult of all: stop using Focal speakers to demo at conventions or in dealers. For whatever reason Focal and Naim just do not seem to sound good together.

Simple really. 

@DUCKWORP, I expect you are correct about culling more products from the offering soon.

But I see this as a bad thing and moves Naim away from it's core legacy values.

We've already lost speakers, any meaningful CD player offering, entry level pre/power amps, FM tuners, the XP5xs, the nDAC, any contemporary SNAXO.

Naim have stopped being a system maker. And while I do admit that market forces have dramatically changed, that doesn't mean I have to like it. Smaller homes and a dramatic drop in home ownership does make old school no compromise (I say that loosely) multi box systems a tough sell with the demographic in their earning prime. 

I'd rather they stick to the older model but there probably isn't enough customers like me for them to stay in business that way.

Currently, my system sounds great. When/if the time comes to overhaul it, if Naim are still Naim as I know it, I'll stick with them. If they've gone far down the road that the recent range culling suggests, I might go elsewhere.

Richard Dane posted:

cdboy posted:

I'd love to see a simple one box amp-streamer. Even a Mu-so without speakers would be great. Would sit nicely as an AV 2-channel amp with UPnP ...  

I think Uniti range has the simple one-box-streamer-amp covered. 

Fair comment. (I have an Atom) I should have added at less than Mu-so price ..

A headphone amp!!

Emre posted:

A headphone amp!!

Haha. I think you mean a headphone amp that you actually like. Your opinion of the HeadLine2 fronted headphone amps is duly noted.

They do actually have loads of headphone amps:

DAC V1
HeadLine/NAPSC
HeadLine/FlatCapXS
HeadLine/HiCap DR
HeadLine/SuperCap DR

So I assume you mean they should replace the analogue HeadLine2 fronted range of 4 headphone amps with something like a HeadLine3 that you approve of. 

I've got no problem with the performance of the HL personally but functionally, a remote controlled HL with non captive lead and additional balanced connection XLR-4 would be nice. I'm just not feeling that such a product is around any corners.

I think that we are going to see the last of separate PSU’s as NAIM concentrate on one, two and three-box systems.

I suspect that the days of multiple-boxed systems (seven, here at El Nidito) are drawing to a close. Not least because those with the cash, let alone the interest, begin to shuffle off into the big echo chamber in the sky...

What about something to compete / undercut dsc’s network bridge.  A simple, pared back device one can trust to remove all the technical concerns about “contamination” of singal paths that could sit nicely alongside the dacV1 on the rack but would also offer people using high end dacs, who don’t want to buy into Naim’s high end streamer / dacs, a way to avoid the waste of buying another device that includes a dac they just won’t use.  

Such a product would also have great street cred and allow younger people to enter the Naim world (Nait/v1/streamer).  By starting them with such a good source they have an upgrade path to the more expensive amps without having to dump the front end.  To continue with their current product range Naim have to attarct young people to separates.

And i’d be very tempted by such a product so I could move on from the large ugly power supply and awkwardness of the microrendu to a rack of matching Naim equipment.  If a company like Sonore can have so much success in this field, both in technical accomplishment and sales, I do wonder what Naim might achieve with a similar design brief and their knowledge from the ND555.

The NDS was a suberb achievement by Naim but now they are being sold on eBay.  Using a separate Dac and streamer is always going to offer some protection against this type of waste.

duckworp posted:

- there’s a move in hifi to fewer boxes - Naim's multi-box approach is feeling out of kilter with wider trends in high-end.  Create a top of the range integrated amp to match the 500 and Naim shouldn’t be apologetic for a one-box solution which has always been the marketing message in the past (the message from Naim re integrated high-end amps has always been "you really should have 4 boxes but if you MUST have one here it is")

I like your ideas and fully agree with them. However if you look at some of the systems of the members here in the pictures thread (and from what I have seen on other forums) I think that the multi box approach is very much alive. I belong to the younger age group in this forum and yet even in this group there are still plenty of people that prefer multibox.

iliria posted:

duckworp posted:

- there’s a move in hifi to fewer boxes - Naim's multi-box approach is feeling out of kilter with wider trends in high-end.  Create a top of the range integrated amp to match the 500 and Naim shouldn’t be apologetic for a one-box solution which has always been the marketing message in the past (the message from Naim re integrated high-end amps has always been "you really should have 4 boxes but if you MUST have one here it is")

I like your ideas and fully agree with them. However if you look at some of the systems of the members here in the pictures thread (and from what I have seen on other forums) I think that the multi box approach is very much alive. I belong to the younger age group in this forum and yet even in this group there are still plenty of people that prefer multibox.

Yes but that’s because many have invested in there system and built it up over many years!

if the only option was fewer boxes, over time more people would have fewer boxes. 

The problem is Not many people go out and by an end game system from day one.  It is done over many years and each step improves the sound quality. 

I am guessing hear but I strongly feel Naim could if they wanted to redevelop the range and improve the sound quality easily for the lower priced products and intergrating boxes. 

But hear lies the problem, they can’t go out and make the products all better over night as so many have invested in higher products. 

E.g if they made a new 282 preamp that removed the second row of channels and gave better separation of things within the board it could and possibly would then be better than the 252, so you then have to do it to that also and so on and so on till you get to the 500/statement series and you can’t then have the lower ranges almost as good! People with those ranges would be kicking off and they would lose business.

Let's not forget fewer box product offerings prove fewer upgrade paths too. 

You get to extremes like Linn and Devialet which sound great but then you want to upgrade and everything is so integrated that　your upgrade path entails getting rid of the lot and starting again.

I think only Naim has all the data when it comes to people using the upgrade path(s) provided ... but bear in mind that the population on the forum is only a small amount of all users ...

Popeye posted:

Yes but that’s because many have invested in there system and built it up over many years!

if the only option was fewer boxes, over time more people would have fewer boxes. 

E.g if they made a new 282 preamp that removed the second row of channels and gave better separation of things within the board it could and possibly would then be better than the 252, so you then have to do it to that also and so on and so on till you get to the 500/statement series and you can’t then have the lower ranges almost as good! People with those ranges would be kicking off and they would lose business.

That may be the case but there are plenty of people today that also buy the best they can from day one. I'm not sure the use of the word "invest" is appropriate in this case either. "Spend" would be more appropriate

Somehow I am not quite sure abou the second sentence above. Quite often people get upgradeititis and they just want more and more boxes. It's a psychological thing and often exploited by manufacturers because it's the money maker.

In todays' fast advancing technologies it is quite common for products that come out to be far more advanced and better than their predecessors (even of a year or two ago). Don't see Apple or Samsung losing money for bringing out much improved newer models of their products year on year. On the contrary, they make money out of it and people's bug to upgrade and have the latest and gratest. At the same time every few years or so the brand's lines can be re-named. Instead of using 200, 252 and all that Naim could use A1, A2, A3 for amps P1, P2, P3 for preamps and so on.

A Naim engineered 'Chromecast' imitation dongle along with some Android, IOS and Windows applications would be welcome at the moment!

iliria posted:

Popeye posted:

Yes but that’s because many have invested in there system and built it up over many years!

if the only option was fewer boxes, over time more people would have fewer boxes. 

E.g if they made a new 282 preamp that removed the second row of channels and gave better separation of things within the board it could and possibly would then be better than the 252, so you then have to do it to that also and so on and so on till you get to the 500/statement series and you can’t then have the lower ranges almost as good! People with those ranges would be kicking off and they would lose business.

That may be the case but there are plenty of people today that also buy the best they can from day one. I'm not sure the use of the word "invest" is appropriate in this case either. "Spend" would be more appropriate

Somehow I am not quite sure abou the second sentence above. Quite often people get upgradeititis and they just want more and more boxes. It's a psychological thing and often exploited by manufacturers because it's the money maker.

In todays' fast advancing technologies it is quite common for products that come out to be far more advanced and better than their predecessors (even of a year or two ago). Don't see Apple or Samsung losing money for bringing out much improved newer models of their products year on year. On the contrary, they make money out of it and people's bug to upgrade and have the latest and gratest. At the same time every few years or so the brand's lines can be re-named. Instead of using 200, 252 and all that Naim could use A1, A2, A3 for amps P1, P2, P3 for preamps and so on.

That’s a flawed scenario as most people have yearly or two year phone contacts that entails an upgrade of a new phone. Also Apple deliberately makes there older phones slower overtime to force you to change it for a current model!

Popeye posted:

iliria posted:

Popeye posted:

Yes but that’s because many have invested in there system and built it up over many years!

if the only option was fewer boxes, over time more people would have fewer boxes. 

E.g if they made a new 282 preamp that removed the second row of channels and gave better separation of things within the board it could and possibly would then be better than the 252, so you then have to do it to that also and so on and so on till you get to the 500/statement series and you can’t then have the lower ranges almost as good! People with those ranges would be kicking off and they would lose business.

That may be the case but there are plenty of people today that also buy the best they can from day one. I'm not sure the use of the word "invest" is appropriate in this case either. "Spend" would be more appropriate

Somehow I am not quite sure abou the second sentence above. Quite often people get upgradeititis and they just want more and more boxes. It's a psychological thing and often exploited by manufacturers because it's the money maker.

In todays' fast advancing technologies it is quite common for products that come out to be far more advanced and better than their predecessors (even of a year or two ago). Don't see Apple or Samsung losing money for bringing out much improved newer models of their products year on year. On the contrary, they make money out of it and people's bug to upgrade and have the latest and gratest. At the same time every few years or so the brand's lines can be re-named. Instead of using 200, 252 and all that Naim could use A1, A2, A3 for amps P1, P2, P3 for preamps and so on.

That’s a flawed scenario as most people have yearly or two year phone contacts that entails an upgrade of a new phone. Also Apple deliberately makes there older phones slower overtime to force you to change it for a current model!

My point is that companies always find a marketing method to make people want the next latest and greatest. Apple might make their phones slower overtime but it hasnt forced me to upgrade. I havent noticed my phone's performance deteriorate overtime. Now, those who are hooked on numbers will upgrade straight away. even though a 0.2ms improvement might be so small that is barely noticeable.

nigelb posted:

Ummm.....possibly but it is not the usual 10% ish off promo, this is £200 off a Mus-so and £210 off a Mu-so Qb. That is one heck of a Black Friday deal or it is a run-out promotion.

£280 off the Mu-so. At £715 that is one sweet deal.