Mesh Network Wifi

Great stuff! Netgear Orbi is that one I am using in my 1st house, and this is the one that I would highly recommend, the other one that I use in my 2nd house is the Google Wifi, which also works great.

But I prefer the Netgear Orbi, purely / mainly for the reason that I can set up OpenVPN.

Ideally you would attach each of these devices to your network via ethernet. I have the bt whole home disks which do similar and it does make a great difference.

We have recently installed the Orbi SRR60 router with two pro satellites to get wifi cover throughout our thick walled adobe house. It was very easy to install and so far is rock solid. The units are quite large, but for us it was a small thing in exchange for decent wifi. The Orbi app is good and easy to navigate and understand.

garyi posted:

Ideally you would attach each of these devices to your network via ethernet. I have the bt whole home disks which do similar and it does make a great difference.

Dear Garyi, thanks for your reply. I cannot connect the satellites to my network through ethernet. The whole idea of this purchase is to find a solution for not-being-able of a wired connection between my incoming router and the Cisco switch. They are in separate rooms  and quite a distance from each other. With the Orbi I have now the master-satellite wired (!) connected to the incoming router. A second satellite (receiving Internet wireless from the master) is next to my Cisco and connects to it through a wired Audioquest 

[@mention:5509120102656213] and @rick dasler : I noticed that the Orbi can be in either "Router mode" or "AP" mode. I noticed that AP node was the only mode where the Orbi "sees" the NDX-2 and Roon, so I chose that one. DO you use similar?

Iver

Mesh (WMN) can be great, it certainly has its uses.. but there are also some key implementation considerations so to avoid a less than ideal performant Wifi with respect to throughput... 

a) With WMN you should plan as many wireless nodes as possible in a grid type manner. WMN nodes are low power and designed to switch between them and create micro ‘cells’. So practically this means one or two for each room, corridor and hallway.

b) With WMN you need to have severeal Ethernet connected  nodes into the WMN node array. Ideally at each  edge of your grid of nodes.

Given the above your WMN network should work work well with good reach. Do bear in mind with WMN each wireless node hop halves the maximum throughput... so you want to keep such hops to a minimum, hence the need for Ethernet connected nodes across your WMN grid for effective throughput performance.

thank you so much Simon !

I sorted out my own question :-) ... AP Mode means Wireless Access Point. So the Orbi does not act as a router but only as extension Access Points. Works perfectly well for me now.

Yes, I use the Orbi in AP mode and the master one is the sole DHCP server, and the modem router is set up in the bridge mode.  So the modem router is just a dump device, it sole purpose is to provide a physical connectivity to the internet.

I have BT mesh which is working well...thanks for your post Simon - I may be able to hardwire the first satellite node to the mother (which connects to the router via Ethernet) and I am planning to get another one which I will connect via Ethernet to my Mac mini, which currently hosts Roon core. I’m still considering a DCs Network Bridge...HH liked it...has anyone got one.

Docv posted:

I have BT mesh which is working well...thanks for your post Simon - I may be able to hardwire the first satellite node to the mother (which connects to the router via Ethernet) and I am planning to get another one which I will connect via Ethernet to my Mac mini, which currently hosts Roon core. I’m still considering a DCs Network Bridge...HH liked it...has anyone got one.

 

Do you have wifi turned off on your router?  Definitely a good idea for anyone with an alternative wifi source to be sure that the isp's router is not also sending out wifi.

Yes thanks...the BTHub Wi-fi signal isturned off.

Annoyingly, my skyQ box sends out a (redundant) Wi-fi signal but I can’t find out how to turn it off...it receives my BT Wi-fi perfectly well for streaming TV

Docv posted:

I have BT mesh which is working well...thanks for your post Simon - I may be able to hardwire the first satellite node to the mother (which connects to the router via Ethernet) and I am planning to get another one which I will connect via Ethernet to my Mac mini, which currently hosts Roon core. I’m still considering a DCs Network Bridge...HH liked it...has anyone got one.

 

If you are talking about the bt whole home, then I dont think they are designed to connect to PCs/Macs, the single ethernet socket is for connecting to the network.

Really for ideal results (and IMO) for a three piece like the BT kit they all want to be connected by ethernet.

Bart posted:

Docv posted:

I have BT mesh which is working well...thanks for your post Simon - I may be able to hardwire the first satellite node to the mother (which connects to the router via Ethernet) and I am planning to get another one which I will connect via Ethernet to my Mac mini, which currently hosts Roon core. I’m still considering a DCs Network Bridge...HH liked it...has anyone got one.

 

Do you have wifi turned off on your router?  Definitely a good idea for anyone with an alternative wifi source to be sure that the isp's router is not also sending out wifi.

I keep it activated on purpose, so that my son and guests use the regular Wifi for whatever they want, and the Orbi one is strictly for music

garyi posted:

Docv posted:

I have BT mesh which is working well...thanks for your post Simon - I may be able to hardwire the first satellite node to the mother (which connects to the router via Ethernet) and I am planning to get another one which I will connect via Ethernet to my Mac mini, which currently hosts Roon core. I’m still considering a DCs Network Bridge...HH liked it...has anyone got one.

 

If you are talking about the bt whole home, then I dont think they are designed to connect to PCs/Macs, the single ethernet socket is for connecting to the network.

Really for ideal results (and IMO) for a three piece like the BT kit they all want to be connected by ethernet.

Techadviser’s review states:

“In bridge mode, which is the default, the discs allow you to connect a wired network device, such as a NAS drive or printer. But note that wired devices attached to your existing router are also accessible via the Whole Home Wi-Fi network”.

I will test this out if possible as I have two satellites connected to the mother by Wi-fi - I will move one into the room where the MM is and try the Ethernet connection.

Yes Iver, I only use the Orbi SRR60 router as a wireless access point that then connects the two satellites wirelessly. The SRR60 is cabled to the ISP's router which has its wifi turned off and is there to do the addresses etc. Like you I chose this system because of house construction/layout constraints. So far so good with all and any devices connecting and working fine.

The hifi is all hard word to the network. The Orbi kit is only to achieve wifi coverage throughout the home.

Congrats Iver - it is a great new technology for better connectivity in the home. I am using linksys velop which is similar to orbi, although I have ethernet backhaul on 2 out of 3 access points. i also moved from an apple extreme based setup and need a wifi bridge to naim rack also

2 learnings I would pass on

1) double nat - i had problems w tidal and radio dropouts even if speed was great. While there were some ISP problems, it was partly also due to I had the 1st AP running as router with its own IP subnet (in addition to IP adr of ISP modem). This can impact QoS protocols of live streaming, so went to bridge mode and it resolved

2) channel optimization - mesh can optimize the channels that the APs use to lower risk of interference from other networks. I live in an appartment w 20 wifis. Triggering the channel optimization also worked well.

br Lars

LarsDK posted:

2 learnings I would pass on

1) double nat - i had problems w tidal and radio dropouts even if speed was great. While there were some ISP problems, it was partly also due to I had the 1st AP running as router with its own IP subnet (in addition to IP adr of ISP modem). This can impact QoS protocols of live streaming, so went to bridge mode and it resolved 

Yes, not so long ago, somebody in this forum complained that he had issue with the double NAT, and he blamed it the the Netgear Orbi, and he advised folks to avoid the Orbi because of it.

So make sure that the master device is the *only* one doing the DHCP allocation.

Just one thing to note, Orbi is not technically a proper mesh network. The satellites don't mesh with each other, they only connect to the router in a 'hub and spoke' type arrangement. So ideally you'd want to try and centralize the router as best as possible if more than 1 satellite is required.  

Not that this seems to affect performance, if anything it performs better than most other proper mesh network solutions out there! 

My test showed that you can use the Ethernet port on a BT satellite node to connect to a device such as a minimac...no issue at all. When I disabled the Ethernet connection on the mac’s Settings the wifi connection kicked in again without a fuss...the BT app controlling the whole home network is very good imo.

interestingly, I much preferred the sq of my system using Wi-fi rather than Ethernet. It could have been a cable issue as I used a cat 5 which was lying around.

Guys, you should avoid NAT and certainly double NAT wherever possible. For really basic network transfers it can be transparent.. for many things more involved such as UPnP streaming your NAT processor would need to protocols that forward things like multicast group IP addresses .. as well as being other protocol aware .. and most consumer NAT devices just don’t do this.. they would be complex to configure if they did... 

In a home network subnet there is no need at all to use NATing... keep it simple.

Its good WMN and cooperating ESSID Access Points are becoming more available for consumers.. none of this is particularly new technology, but it is coming down in cost for use by the consumer... anything that moves away from highpowere Wifi and relying on single accesspoint Wifi is a good thing.. andthe standard of home Wifi setups should improve..... just watch that throughput on wireless WMN nodes... I note much consumer marketing info on WMN setup goes quiet on the issue..

NAT has to be performed by a DHCP server for your home network so that each of your network devices has its own 'local' IP address within your own LAN. The other computers on the Internet see only one IP of your home system, and this IP is the 'public' IP of your modem router which is usually assigned by your ISP.

Frank, you may be confusing NAT in a LAN, and using a router between public and private addresses.. where there is routing between network (internet and LAN), on consumer routers typically PAT takes place. PAT is port address translation and  is usually how consumer routers map a single external public Internet address to multiple devices on your internal network that uses a private address space... ie the external port addresses on the external internet IP address  route to internal IP addresses and various port addresses through the router.

NATing can be used when there is a direct mapping across public/private router interface where multiple addresses are translated, but port addresses are maintained and not remapped. This is is unusual for home networks, as most have a single external Internet address, and many internal private addresses that most if not all potentially need to reach the internet.

Within a home network of private addresses, NATing should not be necessary in the vast majority of use cases, and can cause problems for various protocols and applications if attempted. NATing is nothing to do with a DHCP server, and NATing is not the same as routing.

Thanks Simon,

i would like to clarify what I was saying in my previous comment as it causes some misunderstanding.

Some note about PAT - PAT, aka NAT overloading, uses port numbers to map and track traffic between home network devices  and the Internet.
But I prefer to use the term NAT generically since it is known by most people.

Hi Frank, NAT and PAT functions are specific and shouldn’t be confused with routing or each other. NAT is a one to one address translation.. most people I dare say don’t need to worry about NAT.

Now typically when one uses a broadband  or internet router, unless one is using tunnels, one is routing from a public Internet addresss) to private RFC1918 IP addresses. Now clearly as RFC1818 addresses are not unique and public  internet addresses are, translations are required, and here Network Address Translation and Port Address Translation are usually both required. NAT and PAT are different and shouldn’t be confused. In the general NAT case in networks where there is a 1-1 address mapping (like in tunnelling), port addresses are usually maintained.

However back to broadband and the internet connection the use of a single public Internet address and many RFC1918 addresses, (ie addresses on your home network) then another address parameter is usually required to uniquely define the route translation, and that is usually the port address. So on broadband internet routers both NAT and PAT are therefore performed, unless you specifically require certain port addresses, ie they are maintained. 

Indeed combined NAT and PAT is sometime called NAT Overloading.. I understand originally the term came from the increased buffer memory space in the router/gateway  to mananage both address and port translations. But as I say NAT and PAT functions are different and shouldn’t be confused with each other..

So in short I suggest typical consumers shouldn’t need to know this, and I would suggest if they are needing to consciously NAT or double NAT then something has gone wrong or not working correctly. The only thing consumers might need to be mindful of are PAT exceptions, otherwise known as hardwired Port Forwarding.. these days protocols like UPnP (nothing to do with streaming) usually set this up behind the scenes, but occasionally one might need to manually set port forwarding in the router for certain programmes/applications.