Sad day...

Posted by: The Hawk on 07 September 2011

I don't know if there are many hockey fans on the Naim Forum, but today is a sad day for the hockey world, and for me personally. One of my favorite players, Brad McCrimmon, as well as Pavol Demitra, and Ruslan Salei are among the 43 dead from a jet crash into the Volga River. Growing up in Calgary, I watched McCrimmon help the Flames win the Stanley Cup. The 'Beast" was a terrific player and person. He was looking forward to the coming season as head coach of the Lokomotiv. Condolences to all of the families and friends involved. RIP!

 

Dave

Posted on: 08 September 2011 by osprey
Sad day indeed. There has been a lot of press coverage today. It seems that air safety in Russia is not in the level it should. I feel for the families and friends of those who were involved.
Posted on: 08 September 2011 by The Hawk

Thanks for responding. I'm disappointed no one else has commented, but I really appreciate that you did. Today was to have been their opening game of the season. Are you in Finland, by the way?

 

43 people killed in one fell swoop. Many North Americans who fly on Russian charter airlines nickname their flights "Pterodactyl Airlines". Incredibly sad watching footage of the divers struggling to drag the bodies of these elite athletes from the water. Initial reports indicate the pilot couldn't get lift-off by a certain point on the runway and should have aborted. But that may just be speculation.

 

It's been a weird summer for hockey in general. Three players, all 'enforcers', have died, one by suicide, one by overdose, the third they suspect might be a suicide.

 

On the same day as the crash, hockey's brightest star, Sydney Crosby, has a press conference about his concussion that resulted from a 'hit to the head'. He may not play the game again for quite a while. I loved this game for years, played it from the age of six, outdoors, every winter, in my hometown of Calgary. I stopped watching the game a few years ago, too many hits to the head, too many concussions.

 

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, but my point is that the game of hockey has had many setbacks in the past few months, and yesterday's events are especially hard to fathom.

 

Dave

 

Posted on: 08 September 2011 by winkyincanada

Strange and sad days for hockey indeed.

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by osprey

Dave, yes I am in Finland. I followed hockey quite close in the past (even NHL in the ’80 – early ´90 during hey days of Edmonton, Jari Kurri being the first Finnish star over there). I share your opinion that the game has changed. However, I do not know if that is the reason why I also do not watch the games as I used to but still do every now and then.

 

This has been big news here (one of the leading topics in the main TV). There has been some speculation that the fuel used was not up to standard so the engines did not produce enough power for successful take off. If this is the case it makes this accident even more tragic since it could have been avoidable.  

 

- Mika

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by Gavin B

Another hockey fan here (Nottingham Panthers).  It was one of those almost unbelieveable moments when I first read the report, especially since some of the names were familiar to me from watching the NHL over recent years.

 

Gavin

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by Gavin B

And the NHL deaths have been odd too.  Belak was well known to UK hockey fans as he played for  Coventry during the lock-out year.

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by DrMark

 I am a huge hockey fan, and in fact still play (at a much slower speed) and officiate (did 2 games last nigh)t - this was quite the talk from the benches of the beer league hockey team last night and it is truly a sad day for hockey. 

 

We have several Russians in the leagues down here in NC, and I talked to one from Voronezh some time ago - he said flying into Moscow on Аэрофлот was no problem, but he always took the train from Moscow to Voronezh because he didn't trust the safety of internal air travel in Russia.

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by The Hawk

Interesting article about 'NHL' enforcers yesterday. There is a film premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival about Chris Nilan, and a few other enforcers. Chris protected the rest of his team mates on the Montreal Canadiens, Bruins, and Rangers. The reason I used to love watching the NHL was the offence, the rushes up the ice. It was open and freewheeling. The old school enforcers protected the skilled players, and let them do their jobs, and no one dared try to injure the skilled players with deliberate hits to the head. I found it use to be much faster flowing and way more exciting. There was a lot more "hockey" being played, then came the odd fight between the tough guys and things would settle down again. Then the NHL morphed into clutch and grab, and the defensive trap. The skilled guys couldn't do their job anymore. The NHL wouldn't allow the enforcers to get their job done. I'm sure there were a lot of 'unreported' concussions in the old days, we didn't understand hits to the head very well back then. But the gifted players (and the rest of the team) didn't get brain injuries at anywhere near the level they do now. When I played, I loved body checking, but if a guy had his head down, I was very careful, I 'let up' on the force of the hit, and I didn't take advantage of the fact the other guy didn't see me coming. There was more respect. Players in the NHL had more respect for each other. Two of the guys that died in the crash, Korolev and Karpotsev, played this way in Toronto. These days, it seems the attitude is that the guy had it coming to him, his head was down and he was turned away from the play, 'I was just doing my job', etc. They nail the guy, sometimes from the side, or from behind, with as much force as possible, consequences be damned. It often appears as though the offending player aims his shoulder at the the guy's head. I find it all too painful to watch. The NHL is seemingly endlessly changing the rules of the game, constantly moving the lines, trying so many things to make the game better, and it doesn't seem to be working. I find the Junior game, especially the world championships, to be much more exciting. Two of the players that died were on the Russian National team that won the world championship last winter. Their team was kicked off a plane flight because they were partying too much after the win.

 

In my opinion, the NHL has become too much of a business, less of a sport. Also, it's ironic how the equipment is way better designed (especially helmets) and the injuries to the head are way more severe. When I was a kid, helmets were thin plastic and the foam was a joke, very soft and barely a quarter inch thick.

 

Dave

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by The Hawk
Originally Posted by Gavin B:

And the NHL deaths have been odd too.  Belak was well known to UK hockey fans as he played for  Coventry during the lock-out year.

I've been thinking about that a lot. Are fans and the media looking for a connection that may or may not be there? As I suffer from an illness (OCD) and some depression, I wonder what's going on when Wade (Belak) is on top of the world, has all these plans in place for a second career in hockey, is interviewed a week before his death and seems excited about the future? He was such a happy go lucky guy, very popular with the fans and the press. He made light of his job as a tough guy, was very open about it, and talked about not being able to sleep the night before an important game. Who knows how he was really feeling inside? He loved his wife and daughters. But how great is his pain when he rents a hotel room and hangs himself? Did he always battle depression, independent from the game? Did he suffer brain damage from fighting in the NHL and Juniors? Tough questions about the three NHL enforcers dying since May. Were they just representative of the average man, dealing with life? Like depression, addiction, abuse of drugs and alcohol? Was it because of the game, or life, or genetic factors? Wade seemed so happy to the world, but maybe it was just a game face he put on to mask something profound inside. I'm thankful for all the support I have in this world, from my wife, to my analyst, and to nice people on forums like this. It all helps.

 

In the Toronto Sun newspaper yesterday, enforcer Chris Nilan talks about how he fought his battle with addiction (perhaps his toughest battle), and he's much happier about life now, and celebrates his wife, kids, and grandchildren more than ever. He's come a long way, and I look forward to the film about him and the other enforcers.

 

Dave

 

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by Gavin B

The Hockey News recently featured a (possibly re-hashed) story that Boston University researchers were looking the brain of Boogaard (who died earlier in the Summer).  There seemed to be a suggestion that the repeated head traumas (as a result of fighting in his case) led to a degenerative condition which affected a key part of the brain linked to various relevant behaviours.

Posted on: 09 September 2011 by The Hawk

Hi Gavin. Also, in the case of Bob Probert, after his death, in examining his brain there was evidence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

 

Dave

Posted on: 10 September 2011 by DrMark

Dave - as far as the hits causing more damage now, the players are so much bigger and stronger than in years past that I can't help but think that has something to do with the increased injury.  Look at hockey info on players from the before the 80's - most players were about 180 - 195 lbs.  A guy who was 220 was "too big and slow" to play hockey.  Now we have Zdeno Chara at 260 lbs who can shoot the puck 100 mph and skates and passes well.

 

Also, and hockey gets a "free pass" on this in the USA because it is a fairly distant 4th of the main sports over here, the steroid use in hockey is probably a lot more than some people think (or want to admit), but because it's not baseball no one is investigating it.  (Of course the NFL is a master at pretending and covering up what is obviously a steroid ridden sport.)  But bigger, more jacked up players moving at higher speeds contributes to the  head injuries - the NHL may be losing its most marquee player at age 24 because of a concussion.  And I think the attitude is with the new equipment no one needs to worry about it - but as with football, the "better" equipment allows you to deal a blow even more than it protects you from receiving one.

Posted on: 10 September 2011 by osprey
For me hockey is a contact game. Buy not a violent one. Unfortunately recently it seems to be turned that way.
Posted on: 10 September 2011 by The Hawk
Originally Posted by DrMark:

Dave - as far as the hits causing more damage now, the players are so much bigger and stronger than in years past that I can't help but think that has something to do with the increased injury.  Look at hockey info on players from the before the 80's - most players were about 180 - 195 lbs.  A guy who was 220 was "too big and slow" to play hockey.  Now we have Zdeno Chara at 260 lbs who can shoot the puck 100 mph and skates and passes well.

 

Also, and hockey gets a "free pass" on this in the USA because it is a fairly distant 4th of the main sports over here, the steroid use in hockey is probably a lot more than some people think (or want to admit), but because it's not baseball no one is investigating it.  (Of course the NFL is a master at pretending and covering up what is obviously a steroid ridden sport.)  But bigger, more jacked up players moving at higher speeds contributes to the  head injuries - the NHL may be losing its most marquee player at age 24 because of a concussion.  And I think the attitude is with the new equipment no one needs to worry about it - but as with football, the "better" equipment allows you to deal a blow even more than it protects you from receiving one.

Good points. I worked in a bicycle/sporting goods/hockey store here in Toronto for about 14 years. In terms of speed, well, let's look at skates. I used to install custom blades for customers. "T-Blades", with a special insulator around the blade, which affected the contact between the blade and the ice: less friction, faster glide, the reaction to a small micro layer of ice and water on the ice surface. More efficient boots. Better power transfer. Lighter equipment. I agree with what you say about the "better" equipment causing injuries.

 

But consider this. Being in North Toronto, I had several NHL players visiting on a regular basis, and we got to chat quite a bit about the game. Pat Flatley, Doug Gilmour, Shane Corson, Tie Domi, Frank Mahovlich, and Eddie Shack, among others. Many agreed that there was less respect in the league, too much clutch and grab, the "Stars" weren't being protected anymore, and so on.

 

And there is way more science involved in fitness and training. I'm sure there are 'enhancements' being used. So there are any number of factors contributing to the epidemic of head injuries, especially injuries to the 'gifted' players.

 

I quit organized hockey at the age of 16, mid season, 'Juvenile' division. Saw too many guys cross checking others in the face, hammering them over the boards right into the bench area, etc. It started getting brutal.

 

Around this time (1975) you started seeing the odd guy wearing a metal cage on their helmet to protect their face. More often than not, the guy wearing the cage would be the most aggressive bullying type of player on the ice. It was as if they now felt invincible, and more at liberty to do what they wanted to others on the ice. I used to relish getting the chance to inflict a nice solid hip check on guys like this. I never hit anyone from the side or from behind.

 

One final point. Personal responsibility. Often I watched guys like Eric Lindros, coming over the the opponent's blue-line, with his head down. Time after time he got hammered, and suffered concussions. What was he thinking? Such a gifted player, a pretty big guy, but he left himself vulnerable. I've always been pretty solid, at 18 I was about 5'7", 185 pounds, and I lifted weights since I was 13. But as a defenceman, I always kept my wits about me. I was not a great skater, nor was I a good stick handler, but I was smart, and could see several moves ahead and had a good sense of how play was developing. I always knew where everyone was on the ice, and I never left myself vulnerable to being hit from the side or behind. I was pretty careful and somewhat paranoid about being blind sided. I was pretty savvy about getting out of the corner with the puck first, and not taking a hit if possible. I didn't like fighting, so if a guy started to mix it up, and wanted to start punching, well, I was really strong, and I would usually be able to restrain them and we'd fall to the ice. So I loved solid body checking, but it had to be clean, legal, and I just wouldn't hit a guy who didn't see it coming.

 

Dave

 

Posted on: 10 September 2011 by DrMark

I agree with you about the respect factor - combine that with the behemoth sizes and all the other things we talked about and there you have it.  Sounds like we played about the same time and are the same general size player - I was the guy with the A league wheels and D-league hands - lol!

 

BTW - I was in Toronto for July 4th weekend in 2005 and absolutely LOVED it - had more fun in 48 hours than I could have imagined...and more beautiful women than I ever saw anywhere in my life.  Stayed rigth downtown across form the stadium, but of course one whole day was at the HOF!

Posted on: 10 September 2011 by The Hawk

Mark, you are one of my favorite types of Doctors. I have had a number of cutting edge chiropractors from St Louis and Texas that have just worked wonders with my spine. Plus the surgeons injecting markaine into the nerves around each vertebrae, man I loved those needles. Great variety of medical services and specialties.

 

Toronto is a nice place to visit, but I hate living here. It's even worse with my OCD. It's too vibrant, 200,000 immigrants a year come to Canada, and most pack into Toronto. It's chaos driving and biking here. I miss Calgary - quieter, healthier, mountains 45 minutes away, cattle grazing in fields, oil derricks, and the Flames.

 

And the Leafs are perennial losers. And the humidity is wicked. The Hall of Fame is nice. I saw a few games in Maple Leaf Gardens, every time Patrick Roy came to town - what an experience. And great rock concerts at the outdoor amphitheater by the lake. And Gordon Lightfoot playing Massey Hall. But mostly I stay at home, tend the grounds, and listen to Naim and Rega to soothe my soul.

 

Dave

Posted on: 15 September 2011 by shoot6x7

NHL is at a cross-roads, but knowing that clown Bettman it'll be blinders on, full steam ahead.

 

I'm not a huge hockey fan, but I'm maddened whenever I here about Crosby.  The fact that the undisputed best player in the league could be on the verge of a career ending injury due to concussions and they won't do anything about headshots ?

 

Olympic hockey is amazingly entertaining and there's no fighting or cheapshots in that.  Why the NHL won't ban fighting is beyond me.

 

Also, living in Sudbury, a major grassroots hockey town I see that kids are taken away from their parents in their early teens and are basically 'raised' by their coaches and team-mates.  I cannot help but wonder that once out of that environment, these players haven't been able to develop a good support system ...

Posted on: 15 September 2011 by DrMark

They have actually (supposedly) instituted a rule that any contact to the head will be dealt with  - in USA Hockey it has come down to even a "face wash" is a Game Misconduct, which I think is a bit silly, since no one ever got a concussion from one of those, but the head contact does need to be addressed - they are losing their most marketable asset in Crosby (even though I personally loathe him and the Penguins) and there is still too much "clutch and grab" going on.