NDX -> nDAC / 555PS still surprising me

Simon,

I am also still in awe  of my nDac/55PS combo, although I use the Unitiserve in place of the NDX, but also use Chord Sarum DIC.  After hooking this combo up I immediately sold my CDS3 it could not in anyway compete. have not heard the NDX in my system but the Unitiserve also has great synergy. I will audition the NDX but am for once in no great hurry.

After some 6 months I am still in the process of listening to all my favourite albums/tracks  over again, without exception they sound so much better. Only problem is this is leading to me buying less new music due to time constraints. 

Gerry

Simon: your enjoyment is infectious! I too own a NDX but I'm in a bit of quandary deciding whether to add a XPS2 to the NDX or to go for another box, the nDAC (powered by XPS2). From what I gather, the addition of a XPS2 (or even the 555PS) to the NDX does not seem to be as significant as adding a separate nDAC. I guess I will just have to audition them in my system.

My NDX is certainly sounding very good (a big step up from my Squeezebox Classic), but I have yet to get that hair raising, spine chilling moment!

Simon, your enjoyment is not only infectious, but costly! I'm at the UnitiServe & nDAC stage (no 555 PS yet ) but I made the mistake of hooking up the UnitiQute to stream from the Serve to the DAC... oh my. I can only imagine the NDX to nDAC with 555PS. When does it end ??

Jan

How would you rate the combo against your Nottingham TT ?

Jan

Hi Simon -

Well said, and I concur 100%!  

It is a wonderful combination that gives me goosebumps each and every night!

Hook

Hi Hook,

And how would you rate the combination in comparison to your analog source ?

Has digital surpassed analog ?

Thanks

Jan

Simon, you have a top-notch source with a typical naim sound.

But I'm sure it does not show the whole power until you conduct the transients with Naim amplification. I believe 282/HC/250.2 may dazzle you and complement your source in the most efficient and synergistic way ...

Gerry, does Chord Sarum DIC improves the sound between US and nDAC comparing to Naim DC1?

I'd go for XPS2 (or 555PS if funds permit) as both NDX & nDAC benefit a lot from the external PSU. It'll be easier to demo the differences with nDAC vs NDX after you have the power supply.

I'm one of the few who sold nDAC in favor of just NDX/XPS2 after a few weeks of testing them both. NDX still brings a big grin to my face on daily basis. (N-stream too, but an ugly one.. )

Cheers,

M

Hi NaimUnT -

I have three thoughts to share in this area. 

First of all, the PS upgrades to either the DAC or the NDX are a big deal.   IMO, the upgrade in sound quality is not subtle at all.   I've described how I perceived these upgrades at great length in other threads, but if asked to summarize, I would say that the XPS2 brings much needed improvement in clarity and soundstage, whereas the 555PS adds more of the same, but also adds more drive -- more bass articulation.  The latter is very important to me as I listen to a lot of jazz, and it isn't always easy to follow what the standing bass is doing.   Funny thing is that when you are at a club, listening to live jazz, no matter how noisy the place is, you can always hear and feel the bass notes.  But that is not always the case when listening to live jazz recodings.   The 555PS does a remarkable job of fleshing out this additional low-end detail, and it makes the difference (to me) between great sound and "being there".

Second, I differ from Murkku in my testing, and decided to keep my DAC in place.   Went back and forth a lot between NDX/555PS and NDX->DAC/555PS, and I can say a lot of positive things about both configurations.   But in the end, I heard more clarity, air and sparkle with the DAC in place.  With all but a few albums, this was a strong benefit to me.   Honestly though, if I had started with the NDX/555PS, I am not so sure I would have purchased the DAC upgrade.   But unlike Murkku, since I already owned the DAC, I saw no reason to part with it.

Lastly, as far as N-Stream goes, it does what it says on the tin.   It is very responsive on my iPad2 (my NDX is hard-wired to a switch).   I have no problem picking an approximate spot in the "All Artists" or "All Albums" list (the line of dots on the right side of the page), and then quickly scrolling a page or two to find exactly who I am looking for in just a few seconds (my library is approx 2000 CD rips, HD FLAC downloads and needle drops).    I miss having a "time remaining" counter, but am not a big playlist guy, so that doesn't bother me.   I remain hopeful that Naim will eventually surprise us with either an improved version, or an entirely new software platform.  I can only hope that they have heard our feedback, and understand how important the user interface is for making their network players successful.   Fingers crossed....

Hook

I never had the opportunity to compare with the DC-1 in my system at home, just Indigo Plus and Signature Plus. At the time also was able to compare the 3 Chord Analogue cables with my Hi-Line, whilst the Hi-Line proved better than both the Indigo and Signature I found the Sarum to outperform it. In fairness the Hii-line was handicapped in my system by the fact I could not get it to hang freely (7 Burndies !!) The chord Sarum is shorter and self supporting.

When I then added the Sarum digital the sound quality was so good and clearly superior I purchased both Sarums without auditioning the DC-1. 

Gerry

Hi Hook - agree about N-Stream and it is very responsive on my Ipad 1 - but would love playlists and artist info look up, and customizable layout to show other tags present in the play screen - such as Composer, Orchestra, instrument, record label etc.

I did 'start' with a NDX and 555PS. Great though it was, I was disappointed by it becasue my  CDS3 with XPS2 beat it in terms of accuracy and enjoyment from redbook, and I could not afford both options. I thought perhaps this Streaming thing was not for me.. as I had previously had disappointing expieriences in the SQ stakes with other Naim disk and streaming products compared to my CDS3.

However when I put the nDAC with 555PS on the end of the NDX - it was a transformation and have not looked back. It comfortably surpassed my CDS3 with XPS2 in terms of imaging, dynamics, bass extension and tonal balance on Redbook (i never got on with CDS3 with 555PS - it made an fantastic opening impression and then soured - and it was a no brainer (for me!) to go back to the XPS2.)

So I sold the CDS3/XPS2 to fund the upgrade....  a difficult decision at the time, but no regrets now.

Simon

Simon, I surely not disparage the Cyrus amps. I 'm just very excited with the way Naim amps conduct the transients -- though this is obviously not the only virtue of Naim designs. What IS surprising that mid-class Naim amps (like 282/250) may give up in terms of ultimate openness and clarity and spaciousness to the bigger and more expensive brands but they surely win in the emotional saturation and musicality. To the best of my knowledge this is mostly related to the focus which Naim engineers put on conducting the transients. You can hear this on the live strings like guitar or piano. So when you combine NDX/nDAC/555PS with Naim amplification the transient performance becomes exemplar and exceeds the much more expensive amps like Boulder or MBL or Mark Levinson.

I do encourage you to audition your source with Naim amplification -- it may surprise you.

Hi Jan-Erik -

Am enjoying both digital streaming and vinyl replay very much right now, but spending a larger portion of my time listening to the NDX.  But this is not a knock on my deck.  Before the NDX, I always felt like something was missing something when I listened to digital music.   That is no longer the case.   I can now pass an entire evening listening to CD rips, HD downloads and needle drops (and even internet radio) without any strong urge to fire up my turntable.   It actually feels good being able to save the wear and tear on my cart!

Have done a number of direct comparisons and blind tests between vinyl, "raw" DSD recordings captured on my Korg M1000, and "cooked" recordings (5.6MHz DSF files converted to 24/88.2 FLAC files).   There are differences of course, but to my and Mrs. Hook's ears, they are relatively subtle.  If I could only pick one, I would still probably pick vinyl.  After all, I dig the whole Japanese Tea Ceremony of collecting, cleaning and playing.   But I am also very happy listening to 24/88.2 FLAC needle drops streamed via UPnP to my NDX.  Streaming sounds great to my ears, and besides, I get to hear both sides of an album without having to get up and flip it!  And when my only opportunity to listen is after 10PM at night, and I am totally beat from a long day at work, the convenience of grabbing the iPad to control everything becomes pretty important to me.

Does vinyl still sound more pure, more real, more....analog?   Well, yeah, I suppose it still does.   But it no longer shows the NDX a clean pair of heels.  Could I move from my $2k cart to a $5k or $10k cart and start another round of leapfrog?   Well, sure, except that Mrs. Hook has developed this silly hangup about us saving some money to live off of when we are old(er) and gray(er).   Yeah, I don't get it either!   TBH, it really doesn't matter right now -- my ears and brain cannot absorb any more sonic bliss than they already are!  Quite a nice problem to have, eh?

Hook

Nice response

Thank you Simon and Hook for your interesting and useful replies to my CD vs vinyl query. My LP12 never got much use after I bought the CDS2/XPS, but it was the nDAC that made me realize what I had been missing in CD replay and that I thought I could only get from vinyl. I had erroneously attributed the 'missing something' to limitations of the CD format.

I bought the nDAC with confidence that it would stay as the digital heart of my system (and I'm still confident), while trusting that Naim would bring out an equally impressive front end for it, which they did with the UnitiServe and the NDX. Before the Serve, I had thought that the DAC part of the equation was responsible for, say, 80 % of the performance, while the front end (server or CD transport) accounted for the rest. Well, the Serve and now the NDX show that it’s not that simple ; I’m really really impressed at how good a front end such as these units can be. To borrow a line from Trentemoller : “There’s always something better”, and that’s the 'problem' with Naim, but hey, you're all here to help .

Hook: so true about the *Japanese Tea Ceremony* ; but you know, I’m finding that there is ritual with the UnitiServe. I eagerly insert each newly bought CD into the Serve for bit-perfect ripping that you can only get from Naim and wait, confident in the knowledge that a metamorphosis is taking place, one that will transform the lowly CD into something closely resembling vinyl replay.

Jan

(saving hard for an NDX)

Happy to see that you consider the acoustic of your room. I did the same but on my ceiling (pinta acoustic ambient pannels) and the improvement is definitely one of the most decisive upgrade - worth to consider

You are correct the internal nDac power supply needs to retained.

Gerry

naimUnt... you have let the genie out now - there will be no going back I'm sure ;-)

I also find it beneficial to use a RF impeded manins lead for the aux nDAC connection. It does make a positive difference even though the 555PS/Powerline is also feeding the nDAC. If you think about it it does make sense to keep the digital powerlines as clean as possible as well to reduce clock noise. The aux mains feeds the DSP and digital circuitry which are crucial.

Simon