NDX -> nDAC / 555PS still surprising me

Posted by: Simon-in-Suffolk on 12 September 2011

I thought I would just share again how incredible this combo is proving to be. My components are about 3 months old and are becoming well run in. I have placed acoustic panels behind my Harbeth C7ES-3s and I am just so impressed at the difference in terms of the  image, naturalness  and analogue type quality to the sound they make. Yesterday I had a  hidef, hairs on back of neck tingle experience, I cranked it up and played Deep Purple's Lazy on Machine Head, and the lead guitar, lead organ, bass, drums and vocals were incredible, and the timing, pace and rhythm was if at a live set, and I do like my heavy blues gigs.
This Naim combo gets better and better and it is bringing so much enjoyment. The synergy of the nDAC/555PS and NDX is hard to believe. Each of this components is good on their own but together they are  magic and I have simply not heard anything touch it. Bravo Naim!
There ...feel better, I just wanted to share the enjoyment...  :-)
Simon
Posted on: 14 September 2011 by naimUnT
Thanks Simon! Indeed, I think you are absolutely right and now that I have heard the combo you recommended, there is really no turning back! I started with a simple one box Uniti and now I have 8 boxes! My FrsimLite is getting higher and higher! But the sonic benefits are undeniable! Best digital front end I have heard. Period. Thanks for the RF connectors on the Mains lead to the nDAC! I am only using stock Naim power cord, believing that it's only the digital circuitry that it is powering but your advice about introducing clock noise is worth more than a passing thought! I will try and get some of the RF connectors. Any particular type or brand to get?
Posted on: 14 September 2011 by naimUnT
Just wanted to add that analog FM through this combo is superb! I had an Audiolab 8000T (which is no slouch) but the NDX's FM through the nDAC + 555PS sounds much better in terms of soundstage, clarity and overall SQ.
Posted on: 14 September 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi - well you could use a Powerline - perhaps some might consider it ovverkill, I use  Belden 83803 cable and am happy with it on the aux.

Posted on: 15 September 2011 by naimUnT
I must agree with those who say that the 555PS is better powering the nDAC than the NDX. Of course, for those who have two 555PS connected to the NDX and nDAC, that would be excellent. This evening I powered my NDX with a 555PS and took the digital out to an integrated Accuphase amplifier with the digital feeding the onboard Accuphase DAC (Analog Devices 1955) and was astonished at how good the Acvuphase sounded. When I fed analog out of NDX + 555PS to Accuphase RCA in, the sound was less involving. While Naim declares that analog out DIN is better than analog out Phono, my little experiment seems to suggest that the digital out of the NDX can be greatly enhanced by the addition of a 555PS. I know it seems like a "sledgehammer to crack a peanut" analogy to use the 555PS to power the NDX but in some systems, this might be better sounding than through a 555PS powered nDAC. In short, don't discount the huge benefits that a 555PS has on the NDX's digital circuitry.
Posted on: 15 September 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi indeed, noise affects delicate digital clocks, the DSP will be sensitive to this. An XPS or 555PS will lower this noise floor. But also a RF inhibiting mains lead will as well, which is probably why I feel such a lead makes a subtle but noticeable  impact on the NDX acting as a digital source. Again I use a Belden lead on the NDX when acting as digital source.
BTW I hope you are remembering to disable the NDX digital out or analogue out depending on config you are trying, that has a suprising sonic impact as well.
Simon
Posted on: 15 September 2011 by Nagoya

N, what was the Accuphase integrated you were using? Thanks!

Posted on: 16 September 2011 by naimUnT
Nagoya: E560 Class A.
Posted on: 16 September 2011 by Nagoya

Apologies, N, a few questions about Accuphase amps as being in Japan they've caught my interest recently and have a pretty stellar reputation like Naim. I'm not near a dealer but it shouldn't be too hard to hear some for myself. Anyhow:

 

How does an Accuphase compare to a Naim amp and do they produce very different sounds?

I imagine that the E560 runs pretty hot being class A. Is that right?

And should you keep Accuphase switched on all the time like Naim? 

 

Thanks very much!

Posted on: 16 September 2011 by GrahamFinch

. I know it seems like a "sledgehammer to crack a peanut" analogy to use the 555PS to power the NDX but in some systems, this might be better sounding than through a 555PS powered nDAC. In short, don't discount the huge benefits that a 555PS has on the NDX's digital circuitry.

I am getting my Unitiserve ssd and NDX at the end of next week. I already have the Ndac and a CDS3 with a 555ps. I was intending to swap the 555ps between the CDS and the dac and have been encouraged by comments here as to how good the NDX/NDAC/555ps combo sounds.

 

However, at the Summer Sounds event yesterday in Dartford I was advised that adding a power supply to the NDX, even if not using its onboard dac would be advantagous. I hadn't considered this as I had assumed that any external ps only improved the dac stages which I would not, of course, be using.

 

There was also a suggestion that if I only had one ps I shouyld use it on the NDX (source first principle) rahter than on the dac. Views here suggest otherwise.

 

I am not keen on (1) the added cost, (2) yet another box, (3)another Powerline for said box and (4) probably another shelf to put it on, However, I am now curious to know how much better the ndx dac combo will sound with two power supplies as opposed to just one.

 

Perhaps, I may have to sell the CDS3 to fund the new box but I am reluctant to give up on CD just yet.

 

Can't wait to get my new kit and experiment.

Posted on: 16 September 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Graham, only your ears will tell, but to mine it was a total no brainer, 555PS on the NDAC. But I do  use a RF choke on the DC1 between NDX and NDAC....( which got pretty close to like having my old  XPS2 on the NDX for a few quid....). And also try and keep the mains into your ndx clean, ie use a RF inhibiting mains lead, and disable the analogue out on the NDX. With the NDAC there is more advantage through the off board supply, as the supply is then split between digital and analogue.
Posted on: 16 September 2011 by naimUnT
Nagoya: Yes, the E560 runs hot, like all Class A topology but I won't say it's hotter than my previous Uniti. Naim's PRAT is peerless while the Accuphase renders excellent timbre, tone and texture but some may find the 'boogie' factor missing.
Posted on: 18 September 2011 by GrahamFinch

Simon,

Graham, only your ears will tell, but to mine it was a total no brainer, 555PS on the NDAC

 

That's what I was planning to do and am glad its working well for you. I will probably an eye out for an extra ps for the NDX but expect to be very happy with the NDX/Ndac/555ps.

 

A couple of Naim contacts both suggest an XPS2 is more than adequate enough to power just the streaming section of the NDX and that there is no point in going to a 555ps.

 

 

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by Dustysox

Graham,

 

Completely concur with XPS for NDX. For an age I was using XPS on my NDAC, my only source was a Logitech Transporter. It all sounded wonderful. Then I purchased the NDX which took my system up to another level. I have kept my Transporter for Spotify and playlists (something I can't do with Nstream...yet!!!) Just to say the Transporter punches well above it's weight when plugged into NDAC.

 

I then "treated" myself to a 555PS. I transferred XPS to NDX and 555PS went onto NDAC. Wow sonic heaven. My "ears" are a bit "muddled" at the moment as I have a pair of Titans on dem....O MY GOD!!! Just when I thought I had heard it all!!!!!So with all this it's difficult to articulate the differences the XPS brings to the NDX. Suffice to say, I have also "heard" 555PS on NDX would be overkill.

 

As been mentioned a million times round here...dem would be most advisable

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by AMA

I possibly missed something but do we (forum) have  any evidence of XPS2 to make NDX/nDAC/555PS sounding any better?

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by Dustysox

AMA,

 

It's all just "hear" say

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by GrahamFinch

I possibly missed something but do we (forum) have  any evidence of XPS2 to make NDX/nDAC/555PS sounding any better?

 
Only our ears and advice from Naim.
 
At the Summer Sounds event at Dartford Naim demoed several different combinations with the very last one being the NDX powered by an XPS2 feeding the NDAC powered by a 555ps. It was this that made me query why they had left the XPS on when they were only using the streaming section. Their reply was that it sounded better.
 
Whilst not obligatory, they said that using an XPS on the NDX and a 555ps on the DAC was part of the upgrade path to get the very best out of the combo. (Both the reps felt it was not really worth using two  555ps on the NDX and NDAC)
 
The combo certainly sounded very good although the room was not particularly helpful.
 
I was disappointed that they did not do any comparison demos between streaming and normal cd replay which I feel would have been interesting for those on the fence as it were.
Posted on: 18 September 2011 by GrahamFinch

Not sure what went wrong with my last post.

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by GrahamFinch

I possibly missed something but do we (forum) have  any evidence of XPS2 to make NDX/nDAC/555PS sounding any better?

It would be our ears and advice from Naim.

 

The point I tried to make in my last post is that at the Dartford Summer Sounds Naim demonstrated several combinations of NDX and NDAC. The very last one was with the NDX powered by an XPS2 and a DAC powered by the 555ps.

 

When I queried why they had retained the XPS on the NDX just for the streaming section they replied that it sounded better. It sounded very good but the room was not brilliant. The Naim guys consider that the use of the XPS on the NDX as well as a 555ps on the DAC is the best combination and an upgrade path.

 

They reckon that the use of two 555's does not add much over the XPS and 555ps.

 

It was a shame they did not compare normal cd replay against streaming for those still on the fence.

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by Hook
Your previous post was very weird Graham -- carriage return worked ok, but line feed was broken.  :-)

The big dilemma for me, and I suspect for other NDX/DAC owners, is what to do if the nDAC2 comes out next.  Trade in the DAC, or wait to see if both can be replaced by the NDS?   This could be a true test of patience...not one of my strengths unfortunately.

Once the nDAC2 is in place, I do not see a lot of folks trading in the NDX for the NDS only to improve on the NDX's S/PDIF output.

So, anyone with a crystal ball care to predict which will sound better?

1) NDX -> DAC2/555PS, or
2) NDS/555PS

Naim has some interesting product positioning choices ahead of them.

Hook
Posted on: 18 September 2011 by GrahamFinch

Hook,

You can wait forever and you can speculate about what Naim might produce next. Seems that our wishes for a streamer only did not materialise, hence I have now opted for the NDX even though I will not need the dac section.

 

What makes you think they will bring out a new dac when the present one is clearly doing so well and is pretty much future proof?

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by Hook
Originally Posted by GrahamFinch:

Hook,

You can wait forever and you can speculate about what Naim might produce next. Seems that our wishes for a streamer only did not materialise, hence I have now opted for the NDX even though I will not need the dac section.

 

What makes you think they will bring out a new dac when the present one is clearly doing so well and is pretty much future proof?

 

I think there is a lot of demand for a DAC2.  

 

Most folks are using the stand-alone DAC, or at most the DAC/XPS2, as a digital hub for multiple sources (cable box, Blu Ray player, Squeezebox Touch, and so on).   For them, the DAC-to-DAC2 upgrade is pretty straight forward, and a Naim network player is of only minor interest.   That may change if the price point of the ND5i is low enough (and it still sounds a lot better than an SB Touch).

 

I do agree that the odds of Naim releasing a network transport for the DAC are very low.

 

Hook

Posted on: 18 September 2011 by AMA
Originally Posted by GrahamFinch: 

When I queried why they had retained the XPS on the NDX just for the streaming section they replied that it sounded better. It sounded very good but the room was not brilliant. The Naim guys consider that the use of the XPS on the NDX as well as a 555ps on the DAC is the best combination and an upgrade path.

Graham, it would be great to hear this from a customer rather than a sales-manager 

Posted on: 19 September 2011 by Nagoya

naimUnT: thank you for your reply. The Accuphase is designed to be kept switched on? Thanks!

Posted on: 19 September 2011 by naimUnT
Nagoya: No. It won't harm Accuphase amp but it's such a waste of electricity and very un-green! Class A pumps out maximum power regardless of whether there is a signal.