n-Stream update long overdue

Posted by: murkku on 14 September 2011

Apparently n-Serve got yet another update on September 12th...

Is there any hope for us cursed with n-Stream?

Posted on: 07 October 2011 by james n

Perhaps it's the 2 week break from using the DS apps or may be just my increasing familiarity with n-Stream but I'm not finding it too bad. Certainly with Majetic running on my Mac and serving up my iTunes managed library it's a fairly good experience. I agree with Simon on many points. The single step navigation is clunky and the ability to make playlists on the fly is sorely missed. It's also a bit of a dark and dull experience and not quite fitting with the lovely Apple control point it runs on. Saying that, n-stream on the iPhone looks better than on the iPad. The extra real estate the iPad provides is not really utilised which is a shame. Just take a look at Chorus, eLyric or even the new Kinsky to see an app that uses the space intelligently, gives a crisp, good looking user interface and allows very easy navigation in one screen without needing to step back and forth. I think as a long time Naim users we're sometimes happy to lose a bit of functionality to gain the best sound quality, but in this case and with the target market of the Qute and Uniti products, a potential customer, new to Naim and used to the slick experience of the ITunes  or Sonos remote apps will find the Naim offering lacking

James

Posted on: 07 October 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Graham, Assett runs on windows based environment, and Wndows Home Server is an OS it's ported to. WHS is cut down consumer version of the enterprise windows server OS and has very low demands on the host PC/server. There are some (although not many at present) small NASs that run WHS. You can run Asset on these. It's what I do. I have an Assus WHS, the size of a chunky text book, it stores all my hidef and runs asset. ( my ripped Redbook is stored on another NAS which Asset reference and indexes, this is seamless to Nstream since Asset creates a single database of all media which it serves). This has been rock solid, and never crashed on me. Asset will quite happily run on regular windows as well, such as an old laptop, but not quite as neat or efficient IMO.
As far as the sequencing, dBpoweramp writes the sequence tag into the WAV file, and so unless your uPNP server is unable to read id3 tags from WAV files, or for some reason you have told dBpoweramp not to write the sequence tag, I can't see why the WAV files are not presented in the right order for you. A workaround is to prefix the filename with sequence number. Your uPNP server if correctly reading wavs ( specifically enhanced / extendable wavs) should be able to read the id3 tags.
Simon
Posted on: 09 October 2011 by GrahamFinch
Hi Simon I originally ripped everything with dbpoweramp to an external USB drive.I used the multi encoder to rip to WAV and FLAC. I copied the WAV files to my Qnap NAS . The Qnap uses twonkymedia but I not sure if it will run asset. My point is that if Sonos reads all the tags and presents albums in the right order, why doesn't Nstream do it for the WAV files? It reads FLAC ok but , very contentious point here, the WAV files sound better to me and my hifi friend than the FLAC files. In the long run I guess I will have to re-rip using the Unitiserve. At least I will then know the rips will be bit perfect and readable by the Unitiserve and NDX but I hoped Nstream and Unitserve would have done a better job with my existing WAV files.
Posted on: 09 October 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Graham, don't worry, there is nothing contentious here, they are your ears and you know what you hear, and there are technical reasons why on decode WAV can sound better than FLAC.
If you have FLAC you DO NOT need to re rip. FLAC is a lossless format. What you need to do is transcode to WAV for current Naim streaming boards. Asset and I understand some other uPNP servers will do this. I have a collection of WAV and FLAC, but I always transcode to WAV using asset to stream to  my NDX. No problems at all there, perfect SQ.
Simon
Posted on: 09 October 2011 by Tog
I might dispute the SQ argument with Simon but probably my advice would be to listen to both flac and transcoded flac before making a decision. Tog
Posted on: 09 October 2011 by charnik

Hi Simon

Do you know the minimum cpu/ram requirments for succesful transcoding FLAC to WAV?

Asset is the only solution available for this operation? Typical Linux nas servers (qnap/synology) can do it? or they have not enough cpu/ram power?

What about Vortexbox?

 

Nikos

Posted on: 09 October 2011 by GrahamFinch

Hi SImon,

If you have FLAC you DO NOT need to re rip. FLAC is a lossless format. What you need to do is transcode to WAV for current Naim streaming boards

 

 

Thanks. I have both WAV and FLAC files of the same cd. I can try transcoding flac to to wav when streaming but will that then alter (reduce) the bit rates of any HIRES FLAC files on playback?

Posted on: 09 October 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Nikos, I am afraid I don't know the minimum CPU requirements for transcoding. My uPNP server runs on a low powered Atom CPU, with no problems at all. I guess a rule of thumb might be if the CPU is powerful enough to run windows it should be able to transcode.
There are others on this forum who are very familiar with Vortexbox, as far as I know it is highly configurable and I think it might support transcoding, but best hear from others who are more familiar with that software.
Simon
Posted on: 09 October 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Graham, if you use Asset for transcoding then the bit depth and sample rate is maintained after transcoding. So your hidef FLAC will simply turn into hidef WAV .
Simon
Posted on: 09 October 2011 by GrahamFinch

Hi SImon,

Hi Graham, if you use Asset for transcoding then the bit depth and sample rate is maintained after transcoding. So your hidef FLAC will simply turn into hidef WAV .
Simon

Sorry I meant if using the Naim decode to WAV function. Guess I will just have to try it/

Posted on: 10 October 2011 by Richard Dane

Graham,

 

the first line of support is your supplying dealer.  They should be there to hold your hand through the ins and outs of getting the best from your set-up, and that should include Naim software optimisation.

 

Failing that, Naim have a hotline  - the Naim phone number - where you can speak to Steven Hopkins, Naim's Customer Service Manager.  Often it's best to e-mail him with specific queries, that way he can consult on any specific technical or software issue.

 

Many of the issues you are having are down to the upnp server it would seem, so not specifically Naim related.  Of the third party upnp servers, I have found Asset (as also used by Simon) to be very good and works well with the NDX and n-Stream.

Posted on: 11 October 2011 by GrahamFinch

Hi Richard,

many of the issues you are having are down to the upnp server it would seem, so not specifically Naim related

The point I have been trying to make is that my Sonos automatically picked up all the WAV information and presented the album artwork and the tracks in the correct order whereas the Naim software does not. I am not sure why this is anything to do with the upnp server as such.

 

The same files are stored in the same directory of an external USB hard disk which is now attached to my QNAPNAS. I have also copied the the WAV files to another folder on the NAS itself.

 

My point is that I would have thought that Naim software would have been written to account for these situations. After all NAIM could clearly see what the competition did and I would have hoped they would have then gone one better as they certainly did with the sound quality.

 

I agree about dealer support, in one sense, but the Naim equipment works and sounds great. Are you saying that all dealers been trained in Naim/NAS configuration?

 

Why is there info in the manuals about physical "connections" but precious little about "connecting" to the network and assisting with these configuration issues. I am sure Phil (?) at Naim does not want to keep receiving loads of similar questions from individual customers,  so what about more advice in FAQs about setting up Uniti\ HDX\\NDX products with the most common types of NAS drives or a separate forum only for software/NAS configuration issues.

 

Regards

Graham

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 11 October 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Graham, I know you directed your post to Richard, but I am struggling to see you argument. As stated the NDX can only deal with what is sent to it. Naim use uPNP, so you need to use a correctly specified uPNP server that provides the correct data to the NDX, such as Asset, or if you want a Naim uPNP server that is guaranteed to work then you use a Unitiserve or HDX. I don't see how the deficiencies of other vendors products can possibly be down to Naim. The NDX can't create information from thin air.
What server programme are  you using with your Sonos when streaming WAVs?
Simon
Posted on: 11 October 2011 by GrahamFinch

Hi Simon,

My Sonos was connected to my wireless router and the WAVs were on the USB drive which was attached to the PC. I assume it was using its own (and/or  the Windows Vista and then later the Windows 7)  operating system.

 

I was never aware of UPNP - Sonos just worked. My SONOS still works and displays album art and tracks in the right order even though I no longer keep the PC on. It works with the QNAP NAS and the attached external USB drive

 

 Sorry if you think I being unfair on NAIM but SONOS worked correctly and so far the QNAP and NDX doesn't. QNAP NAS drives are highly recommended in this forum so I assumed they would work with NAIM software and present the WAV music files in the same way but with better sound quality.

 

I have asked a similar query about Asset on another thread you are contributing to. I do not want to have to run a PC in order to stream music. I would happily consider installing the Asset on the QNAP as an alternative to Twonkymedia but have no idea if this can be done.

 

As I said earlier I am not a network expert.

 

Regards,

 

Graham

Posted on: 11 October 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Graham, well you are right you don't need or shouldn't need  to be a network specialist to use hifi. I don't know what server/protocol or 'software' Sonos uses as its streaming server, hence the question. If it's not uPNP it won't work correctly with the NDX.
I guess my suggestion would be for those who perfectly legitimately just want to plug and play consider a Naim Unitiserve with their NDX. That way they are guaranteed interoperability with supported functionality and a Naim ripper thrown in....
Simon
Posted on: 11 October 2011 by GrahamFinch
Hi Simon, I have a Unitiserve ssd hence part of the reason I use a NAS. I know ripping with the Unitiserve will work but I was hoping to use the existing WAV rips as I do not really want to have to re-rip over 600 CDs. It is frustrating not to have the convenience of the Sonos although the much better sound quality is a worthwhile compensation.