NDX or ND5 XS

James, just a curiosity. Did you have have a new Akurate DS or the old one? How would you compare them and what made you finally go for the NDX?

I might be out of the loop but........ what the f&^k is a DAC2?  If my aunt had mechanical testicles she would be my robotic uncle...........

Originally Posted by AllenB:

       

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Originally Posted by pcstockton:

What if the NDS or HDS is still bettered by the Naim DAC?

Surely, please, Naim wouldn't that to us. Would they?

No, but if history is any predictor of the future, the NDS (and HDS) will certainly be bettered by the DAC2.

So what to do then?  Stick with an NDS/555PS?  Or add the DAC2 "upgrade",  and move the 555PS to the DAC2?

But if you do that, won't you regret having bought the NDS?  That is assuming, of course, that the NDS does not improve upon the NDX's S/PDIF output...

And what to do if the DAC2 comes out before the NDS? 

For me, based on what I've listened to thus far, I'd be tempted to buy the DAC2...and stop right there.

Hook

you are bat-shite, crazy hook. wtf are you talking about.

Originally Posted by AllenB:

       

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Originally Posted by pcstockton:

What if the NDS or HDS is still bettered by the Naim DAC?

Surely, please, Naim wouldn't that to us. Would they?

No, but if history is any predictor of the future, the NDS (and HDS) will certainly be bettered by the DAC2.

So what to do then?  Stick with an NDS/555PS?  Or add the DAC2 "upgrade",  and move the 555PS to the DAC2?

But if you do that, won't you regret having bought the NDS?  That is assuming, of course, that the NDS does not improve upon the NDX's S/PDIF output...

And what to do if the DAC2 comes out before the NDS? 

For me, based on what I've listened to thus far, I'd be tempted to buy the DAC2...and stop right there.

Hook

you are bat-shite crazy hook. wtf are you talking about.

Originally Posted by Hook:

Originally Posted by AllenB:

       

         class="quotedText">
       

Originally Posted by pcstockton:

What if the NDS or HDS is still bettered by the Naim DAC?

Surely, please, Naim wouldn't that to us. Would they?

No, but if history is any predictor of the future, the NDS (and HDS) will certainly be bettered by the DAC2.

So what to do then?  Stick with an NDS/555PS?  Or add the DAC2 "upgrade",  and move the 555PS to the DAC2?

But if you do that, won't you regret having bought the NDS?  That is assuming, of course, that the NDS does not improve upon the NDX's S/PDIF output...

And what to do if the DAC2 comes out before the NDS? 

For me, based on what I've listened to thus far, I'd be tempted to buy the DAC2...and stop right there.

Hook

you are bat-shite crazy hook. wtf are you talking about.

Hi Pcstockton -

I am talking about the trade-off between low box count and ultimate sound quality, as well as the decision whether to use a Naim network player's analog output versus its digital output.  I was also attempting to comment, albeit indirectly, on AllenB's current dilemma.

AllenB is angry right now because he bought an NDX instead of waiting for ND 5X.   He is angry because he is assuming, based on a Naim comment about the ND 5X inheriting technology from the NDX, that their digital outputs will sound the same when connected to the DAC.

AllenB has also said that he would prefer a lower box count, and that he would like to replace the NDX->DAC with an NDS.

Now, in the past AllenB has been an early adopter of Naim technology.  He appears to want to own the the best sounding Naim system possible using the components that Naim currently sells.

For network players, right now we have the NDX.   Naim has announced the ND 5X, and many of us assume that Naim will also release an NDS, and maybe even a ND555, in order to sell a product line that matches the current CD product line.

For stand-alone dac's, there is only one today:  the DAC.   Many of us also assume that Naim will also produce a higher performing DAC in a classic-style case.   In previous posts, myself and others have referred to this next product as the DAC2.

So, AllenB (and I, and others) currently own the NDX -> DAC/555PS.   The purpose of my post was to speculate on what some of the future product decision points might be.    For example, if Naim next releases the NDS, and if AllenB buys one in order to meet his stated goal of reduced box count, then he'll be left with the NDS/555PS.  

My first question was:   what do we do if Naim then releases the DAC2?   Does box count reduction remain the priority, or does the promise of improved sound quality win out?   My assumption is that the DAC2 will sound better than the NDS, because in today's current line up, the DAC sounds better than the NDX.   I believe this because I think Naim will continue to try and preserve today's hierarchy in order to continue to tempt owners to upgrade to more boxes (and to higher levels of sound quality, just like they always have).

My second question was:  what does an owner of the NDX -> DAC/555PS do if the next product Naim releases isn't the NDS, but instead, it is the DAC2?   Do you trade-in your DAC, or do you wait patiently for the NDS to also come out (so you can listen to both)?   Do you stop being the early adopter?

I posed one last scenario and question.  Let's say Naim releases the NDS next, and AllenB or I listen to it and we fall in love.   Now we have the NDS/555PS.     If we add the DAC2 to our current setups, then we wind up with the NDS->DAC2/555PS.   But then we would be right back in the situation that that AllenB finds himself in today, since it is quite possible that the NDX (or even possibly the ND 5X), would do just as well as a digital transport for this new DAC2, and the NDS would be overkill.

Did that explanation make any more sense?   Hope so.   Of course, it is all speculative, and all simply my opinion.  It is based on the assumptions that 1) Naim will continue to release network players to parallel its CD player line, and 2) that the DAC was not a one-off product.

I was trying to make two points.   First,   Naim has always provided ultimate sound quality through more, not less boxes.   That's the way it is has been with amplification, and that is what we are seeing now with their network players and the DAC.  I just do not think that is going to change.   Second,  if you are an early adopter who is chasing ultimate sound quality, you will always run the risk of having a component superseded by something new.   AllenB is angry right now because Naim has not (and probably never will) provide clear guidance about what its future product line will look like.   In this case, it makes it impossible for an early adopter to know whether they are buying the right network player for the right job (be that using its analog out or digital out).  Since it is very likely that Naim is not going to change, I am suggesting that this NDX versus ND 5X situation will not be the last time that an early adopter will be faced with having to make purchase decisions based on incomplete information about future products from Naim.

And yes, I agree, I am bat-shite crazy for spending this much time thinking about Naim's future product line.   Fortunately, I am not alone....  

Hook

Hook,

This assumes that the NDS will have a digital out. If the current range is anything to go by, the NDS/PS will be a closed solution - and rightly so. Also, if the PS regulates all power requirements as it should do, the NDS on its own should not be able to function as a streamer. Naim would do themselves a favour not to complicate their product offering unnecessarily, the NDS/PS should be a two box solution. Period.

Logic would dictate that this will not be the case. What would be the point of having an NDX and ND5XS, let alone NDS, all sounding the same through a dedicated Naim DAC. Naim would be shooting themselves in the foot, they'd be stupid to construct their products in this way. 

I find it amusing how everyone assumes so many things here without the product having even been released. Seems like you are all getting hung up on theoretical issues, which in practice should turn out to have no relevance whatsoever. I may be wrong but that's what my intuition tells me...

Best get a coffee, relax and listen to the great systems you have and wait for Naim to do what they do best, make great products. Once released, have a listen and if there is anything to scream about then, there'll be plenty of time and space here on the forum to start a revolution.

Until then better keep that heart rate down...

tp

I am not going to get embroiled in the "what if" debate but my Naim contact says

NDX is still your best option as its "reference range", offering a more robust chassis and better power supply. The bit package still has  to be "opened" at this point before going to the DAC and we feel the NDX is more accomplished at this

The use of the word "reference" is interesting for those thinking Naim might bring out a "reference" streamer or DAC. But then I suppose anything at the top of the range is automatically "reference" until it is superceeded.

I think it is fair to add that one needs to consider the context of the rest of the system. In my case with a 552/500 it might be argued that any differences might be more evident between the ND5 XS and the NDX whereas perhaps in other systems the differences might be less evident and offer less value for money.

This is still theoretical as nobody has heard the ND5 XS yet apart from Naim themselves. However, from the above comment from my friend they obviously feel the NDX is best, albeit at a price.

I agree with TP that one should enjoy what one has until something better and affordable comes along rather than worrying about "what if".

An NDX or NDAC will still hold their value should something better come along later.

The "we feel the NDX is more accomplished at this" doesn't sound very convincing. Having designed the product I would have thought that they would know for sure whether it was or not.

As others have remarked comparing the ND5xs->nDac/555PS with the same NDX set up could be very interesting with a potential saving of £1k.

It will also be subjective. Naim build and price the CDX2 at a level commensurate with  a more accomplished player. That has not prevented  a cohort from disliking it and preferring the voicing of the CD5XS. If everything was universally black and white no auditioning would be required.

Paul's comment about producing a streamer family which mirrors the CDP range is interesting and not unexpected. If one range truly mirrors the other, then as totemphile posits above, an NDS or ND555 won't have dig out. Not that we can be certain of course.

If, as expected the ND5 and SuperUniti have Dac modules derived from the NDX and the nDac's DSP/jitter control features to me they are more enticing than the NDX.

Tog

Hook,

I sympathised with your viewpoint above. When are people actually satisfied with what they have?

I compared my DELL Laptop into the nDAC via  HiFACE against the 555CDP with dual 555PS - the 555 was better, but THAT much better? Not to my ears. I'd only be aware of the difference if I was doing A/B comparisons.

To my ears a lot of the differences I hear are minor and incremental - in well set up systems.

Simon et al MAY persuade me to listen to a 555PS on my nDAC, but apart from a PSU I think I am set for the forseeable future.

M

Dammit, I want everything...

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Everything is not enough Frank, don't settle for second place

surely the 5 will have the same streaming engine and the same dig out. plug in the dac and save money

Wrong.

The world is not enough. We wants the full-blown post Big Bang Naim Black Box Universe and what not.[please insert the SMILEY of you choice HERE:          ).

Best wishes,

Peter

Is the ND5 XS in terms of sound characteristic the same as the NDX (new version with 24/192...) and the NDX "just" better in SQ or are there more differences?

From what I've personally heard I'd say the differences are many. The ND5 is a fine player. Pretty remarkable at its price point. As would be expected, the NDX sounded much more musical. Not surprisingly the NDS is better still in terms of communication but on the two occasions when I've heard all three streamers one after the other the NDX stood out for it's musical ability for the price being asked. I would also point out that both the demos I attended saw the streamers with their "locical"outboard PSUs; whatever the little one is with the ND5, XPS2 with NDX and 555PS with NDS.

You really should audition them both. I find the ND5XS more fun and bouncy, the NDX 'better' and 'more refined' but not as much fun.

I'm very happy with the nD5XS standalone - the NDX I'm using with a XPSDR.

I find the ND5XS, even standalone a tad bit warmer than the NDX and even the nDac.

I have heared the ND5 XS with the Nait XS on Dynaudio's. Got goose skin with some tracks and was impressed by the incredible resolution, details and dynamik. So clear. WOW.

Later I have tested the ND5 XS as well at hom. 

A totally different characteristic in comparision to my CD5 with the Nait 5.

Was still impressed by this box.

There are some doubts inside me that this "wow feeling" will become a long therm satisfaction as I have had (or better still have) with my CD5.

I fear a little bit that it will maybe other a longer period of time not "less" musical.

Espacially then I'm thinking of the ME Geithains with there tereffic stage and three dimensional room they create.

 So the statement from Harry "sounded much more musical" spark my intresst.