Advice please -- turn old Dell laptop into a NAS?

Windows Vista and Windows 7 are both a bit of a pig to get to share folders nicely if you don't know your way around the additional settings that Microsoft have added to protect you from yourself - similarly OSX has also got issues with folder sharing under SAMBA.

Windows XP is much easier to share from if you have an XP machine...

Phil

I would highly recommend looking at something along the lines of FreeNAS (dot org)

I know you have said that you're "Not so skilled as to run Linux" but that is a very widely held misconception, imho.

Many, many, free community driven projects, based around Linux, BSD, etc, are actually designed to be very easy to use - contrary to popular belief!

Many projects use a web browser for configuration, etc.

It's pretty much all "point & click"

In fact, pretty much all commercially available off-the-shelf "NAS solutions" are Linux/BSD based.

It is quite irrelevant these days.

If you're used to a modern operating system, you'll be quite at home.

In fact, Mac OSX is BSD based

Many people, being used to Mac OSX, Windows XP, Vista, 7, etc, are instantly scared of looking at anything they percieve as different, assuming that it's for bearded geeks only!

The days of being an egg-head programmer, just to be able to turn on the computer and "know what to type in", are long gone.....

If you intend to dedicate the laptop to being a NAS device, the setup would be very simple.

Simply download a so-called "image file" (a wrapped up image of the entire system) and run it to install the system.

This may be run from CD, installing FreeNAS, simply taking over the entire hard drive within the laptop.

Or, one may install FreeNAS onto a USB memory stick (often preferred route) and boot/run it directly from the memory stick, leaving the laptops hard drive for storage.

Adding external drives (USB based for example) is pretty much as simple as buying one, plugging it in and running the "Add a volume" wizard in the system, making it available to you, in the manner chosen.

It is virtually all run with a graphically driven interface - none of the old fashioned "typing in esoteric commands" - just options/buttons and mouse clicks

Seriously, don't dismiss it as an option.

If you are not wanting to spend hundreds on a self-contained NAS device, it's probably the most viable option, imho.

I just wanted to "chip in" as it surprises me to still see people assuming anything non-MS must be "hard to use"

Almost all domestic devices use some form of Linux these days, from your SatNAV to your "smart-phone", to your set-top digi-box without you even realising it! (I wouldn't be at all surprised if the new all-in-ones from Naim are using Linux inside )

Ha - couldn't have said it better!  Bring back WIN98..... PLEASE!

Vortexbox would be my choice - works great on an old Sony laptop. It is designed to serve music and much easier to use than Windows (which I find quite awkward) - assuming you are formatting the Dell anyway and Vortexbox is free what have you got to lose, It also has a top notch CD ripper called CD Paranoia - so you'll get bit perfect rips from your CDs.  It supports iTunes, UPnP, Squeezebox, Sonus and I think there is an option to make the tea, but not used that. 

Wi-Fi? Why bother?

Network attached storage should be just that, attached, in order to provide 99% uptime. A laptop is possibly the worst choice (compared to an old clunky desktop) as its firmware has been optimized to put the device to sleep while preserving battery life....

Sorry - iPhone cut off in mid-post - the trick is to locate the laptop away from the rest of the system so that its fans can run (once you turn off battery-saving optimizations–make sure you leave some space under the housing). It's a great way to experiment, but you'll definitely want to wire the network connection (else your results be very similar to drinking wine from a spoon).

Which Linux would you recommend?  We're "all Mac" at home -- no bias towards MS here! Or is FreeNAS an OS as well as a NAS?

I'm happy to blow up Vista on this machine . . . and what the heck, why not try Linux finally, right?

Given that your are happy to reassign your laptop completely (caveat: as long as there's nothing you want, or cannot risk losing, on it!?) I would give FreeNAS a go.

Yes, it's the full OS, too.

Most BSD/Linux based "tailored solutions" such as FreeNAS, Linux Media Center, MythTV, are actually a complete "package" of OS and programs, all ready to install/configure and use

There's nothing to lose by taking a look at it (given the previous caveat)

It is designed solely for the purpose at hand - turning a PC into a NAS device.

There is extensive documentation on their web site.

(I'd be happy to help with any questions wherever I can)

Also, regarding Guys suggestion of Vortexbox - I am not familiar with it, so I can't comment, other than it may also be worth looking at.

Remember, once you install any chosen system, if you're not happy with it, you can always download and try another - that's the idea of FOSS

Try out alternatives - one can always re-install!

Regarding the issue of laptops and power saving modes - these can usually be "switched off"

For example, Intel's Speedstep technology, or AMD's PowerNow will attempt to reduce the processors "speed" when high processing power is not required (idle time, for example) saving power consumption.

This can usually be disabled in the BIOS. (Just a simple setting to change between "on" or "off"!

Power profiles may, again, be selected to suit. A profile placing the machine in "full power" mode may be selected, although if it's a fairly "newish" laptop, high power settings may not be required anyway, whilst running as a simple file server.

The settings related to placing the machine in "sleep mode" after X minutes of idle time, etc, are also configurable, or may be disabled. This is probably the only setting of importance, in this context.

One last point, I would completely agree with David Devers comment regarding Wifi - it's best avoided if possible. It usually brings convenience at the cost of ease of use and reliability!

Throughput is the big concern with file serving and Wifi can sometimes be rather inadequate.

Of course there are plenty of instances whereby Wifi is OK - close proximity, strong signal, etc, but it's not really the optimal choice.

Even the latest high throughput technologies, such as 802.11n (MIMO) can still suffer from the usual problems of congestion/cross-talk, etc. Having a "good signal strength" isn't the "be all and end all" of it, not by a long chalk!

That said, many people do use Wifi for streaming movies/music. 

Have fun

EDIT: (just in time!)

Having taken a quick look at Vortexbox, it seems very nice and perfect for the job in hand.

Give it a go!

(Linux based again - so you still get to have fun trying out a Linux based solution - As I said before, try out all the suggestions you can find untill you discover which one suits you best )

I second Guy's vote on VortexBox for maximum experimentation value with the old laptop. Though, it seems getting a regular NAS drive for all the reasons David says is the best overall solution in the long run. Good list here tested for audio applications under Disk Storage: http://www.computeraudiophile....gested-Hardware-List)

I agree that FreeNAS is a good solution to repurpose the laptop - its all you really need as it comes with UPnP.  [UPnP is what NAIM and other music streamers need on the NAS to recognize that it is there on the network and play music from it.]  But, as VortexBox is specifically designed as a music server, it might be a bit easier to use. Plus, you can then have fun with it playing music, comparing it to the uServe, etc. Cool!

I re-purposed an old Dell desktop into a music server using VortexBox in about 20 minutes.

1) Downloaded install application from Vortexbox.org

2) Burned it to a CD

3) Reboot from CD

4) Install VortexBox (as noted, this completely wipes the computer)  Easy step by step install program.

5) Restarted...

6) Ripped a few CDs, copied files... and was up!

Given you have the uServe, you don't need Vortexbox's easy ripping feature, but it does a nice job with importing. (See here: http://vortexbox.org/documenta...les-to-my-vortexbox/) Also has a great web user interface.

Very hesitant to question the Wisdom of Phil and Dave but I am happily sharing music folders around my mixed Vista and Windows 7 network via wireless n and have had no dropouts or network access problems in many months (i.e. ever). 

Having said that, if I was in the OP's position I would probably go Vortexbox or similar and wire it if feasible - I just don't want to feed these myths that Vista/Windows 7 is hard to use or unreliable and wireless never works.

Will Vortexbox support the wireless adapter in the Dell or is it intended to be used ONLY with an ethernet connection?  I can't quite tell.

Also Pev, what do you use for UnPnP on that Windows laptop?

Thanks all for the advice!

Pev, I didn't intend to suggest that Windows is unreliable with Wifi - It's Wifi itself that's a little unreliable.

Moving data around a network isn't time critical and one would never even know if there were momentary "slow downs" or errors requiring packets to be resent.

However, with anything demanding real time rates, such as VOIP or audio/video streaming, it would become apparent in stutters or gaps in playback.

Also, my suggestion of using a Linux based solution is simply based on availability. There are custom made solutions, freely available.

For example, Vortexbox, as suggested by Guido, looks very polished and capable.

My suggestion of FreeNAS was simply based on creating a "general" NAS device, whilst Vortexbox is dedicated to the task of dealing with music, specifically, so very likely a better choice.

Bart, regarding Wifi compatibility, if you could ascertain the make/model of Wifi card in your laptop, a quick search would reveal whether it's supported in Vortexbox. If it isn't, there's a good chance that Linux drivers are available anyway and would simply require installing.

If you're stuck, let me know the Wifi make/model (or even of the laptop itself) and I'll take a look around for you.

Being quite new to Naim Audio equipment, I don't have very much to contribute to this forum, unfortunately, but computers and networking I do know - I'd be glad of an opportunity to contribute something back to the forum

(Lastly, have you considered the possibility of installing some network cable, instead of using Wifi? As David said before, it really is preferable)

I'm brand new to Naim myself -- got my first hi fi system in 30 years up and running last weekend. (FYI -- Nait XS, uServe, nDAC, Flatcap, CD5 XS)  Thanks a ton for your generous offer of help!

Running network cable in this relatively new construction townhouse isn't a great option for me.  Powerline Ethernet (an option supported by Naim in their owners' manuals) is something I'll try out eventually.

This laptop solution is not meant to be my final solution; I'll probably buy a NAS.  But I've been spending a lot lately on this stuff, and want to just try this. Now that the hi fi is up and running well (including the new update to the uServe system released yesterday), I have some patience to "fiddle around" with this part of the system.

Hi Bart

I use Foobar 2000 for upnp - free and works well. Also has nice (free) plugins for things like HDCD decoding, lyric retrieval etc. and can be customised to look pretty good. Help and advice is readily available - there is a long and very useful thread on this forum led by Patrick Stockton which was invaluable for me. I know Patrick has moved on to JRiver - so you may wish to try that as well.

@Reality - I agree wifi can be unreliable and wired is better but I find no problems streaming HD video from BBC iPlayer and You Tube as well as music around my house through 2 foot thick 160 year old stone walls - I would wire it up if I had a long enough drill...

My main impetus for posting was actually to refute that sharing on W7/Vista is a pig to set up; wifi is dependent on your situation and can be poor but can be rock solid if the environment is right.

I also have a wifi network at work which  works fine with over a dozen researchers hammering away online - again using a £100 Netgear domestic quality router and no issues in over a year. It's natural that problems get reported more than trouble free setups but then there is a danger of propagating an unrepresentative impression.

Thanks Pev.  For the sake of simplicity, I may play with Foobar first, as it'll live on the existing Windows install . . . then blow it all up for Vortexbox. 

I have no intention of re-installing Vista on this thing!

I do still use Foobar at times.  If I have friends over who want to control the sesh, I typically use Foobar so they can simply use their Remote Apps on their phones.  Plus, as you mentioned, the lyric support is awesome for these situations.

For my own listening and when I have more passive guests, i really do like J River's Theater View.  Sexy as hell.

I think J River's UPNP is a bit more intuitive to set-up, and of course you can run multiple servers.  I have never tried to connect up with Foobar remotely (via PlugPlayer when OFF of my wifi network).

With J River you can easily set up one server for local use, and another that transcodes to MP3 for serving to your iOS device anywhere. 

Lastly, with J River you can use many servers at once.  My humble PC and J River's servers had no problems playing locally while also streaming to both servers at the same time. 

Cheers!

Patrick

Since you already own a UnitiServe, I'm confused as to why you'd install VortexBox on your laptop. FreeNAS seems like a better way to go for you...

You called?

Vortexbox gives you a multifunction music server - whatever you install it on. FreeNas gives you a NAS.

It all depends what you want.

My experience is it will work on almost anything that has an Intel processor. On atom chips it works great as a music server but I would advise something meatier if you intend to use the inbuilt DVD ripper and stream movies.

A laptop works fine - my Vaio netbook worked - lid closed - for five months without complaint.

I now find that a custom i3 based 2TB server is quieter and even more bullet proof.

The latest builds of VB should be fine with most ethernet cards (Dell will be fine) - it's wifi cards that Fedora tends to be picky about and you won't be using that with Vortexbox.

Tog