Source upgrade options (including ND5XS)

Posted by: DT79 on 13 October 2011

I'm using a Sonos ZP90 as my main source connected via coax into my SN, playing a library of AIFF files, stored on a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo, and ripped/tagged by iTunes.

I know that I could obtain some improvements in my front-end, but I'm unsure which way to go as I think that I have a number of choices.  Sound quality is obviously the main priority, but it has to work reliably - I realise I've been spoiled with Sonos!

Option 1: buy a ZP90 with Wired4Sound modification - supposedly this offers improved quality as jitter is much reduced.  This would obviously involve continuing to use the SN DAC, but it's the only option that I could afford to pretty much go with straight away.

Option 2: upgrade to nDAC - I like this option because it means that I can continue to benefit from the Sonos' excellent interface and simple 'plugnplay' reliability. However would it sound as good as option 3....

Obviously I could combine options 1 and 2 in either order

Option 3: ND5XS.  I would love to have a 'proper' Naim front-end and certainly don't mind saving for it, but my only reservation is with the whole area of upnp networking - I really do want it to 'just work' like Sonos does and the volume of problem threads that I see here does not fill me with confidence.  How do I know whether the upnp server which runs on my NAS will play nicely with the ND5XS? Is it possible to install a new Upnp sever on my NAS if the embedded one doesn't work (I am a bit of a dunce where it comes to networking and have just kind of muddled my way through so far)

I know the obvious route is to audition etc, and i certainly will do that, but given that one option is open more or less now and the others need saving for, if the long term future is Sonos then it may make sense to go for the W4S ZP90 first and then start saving for the nDac.  I guess overall on a purely emotional level I favour going for the ND5XS,  and I just want to be convinced that I'm not going to regret it from a reliability and usability standpoint.

Opinions and advice appreciated!

Cheers
Dan
Posted on: 13 October 2011 by Scooot

hi dt79,

i can't comment on your current setup as i don't have any experience with sonos,but what i can say is that i was using a squeezbox touch with a supernait and was happy with the results it gave.i upgraded by by adding a ndac.still using the sb touch as a front end,the improvement in sound quality was a big step forward.

alough you would have to listen for yourself you may find you get better results using yor sonos into a ndac rather than a nd5xs into your supernait.

what i did do tests on was my sb touch vs £3000 meridian cd player into my ndac and imho i could tell very little difference.if i had to nail it down the meridian cd player came across as controling the bass ever so sligtly better.

so my conclusion is that the ndac is a wonderfull bit of kit.but as i say have a listen as only you can decide what best suits you.regards scott

Posted on: 13 October 2011 by bigfella

I would go NDAC, basically I guess as it's exactly the setup I've ended up with.

 

ZP90 - NDAC - SuperNait/HiCap2 into PMC GB1s

 

No NDX or ND5XS to audition when I got mine though. But as NDAC is an upgrade to both these units, I can't honestly see me adding a Naim streamer to use over a ZP90. Like you said 'it just work's' - and absolutely flawlessly. If you have invested in other zones it would make perfect sense too. Just wish they had HD playback capability . .  . Personally I think I'd get more benefit from adding an XPS2 to the NDAC than switching the ZP90 for a Naim streamer.

 

John

Posted on: 13 October 2011 by DT79
Cheers guys, good advice.
Posted on: 08 November 2011 by mackb3
I'm in the same boat... SN and ZP90. However, the ND5XS software issues have paused a move to this kit. I have a QNAP server streaming via CAT5. I compared this with a new Bel Canto CD3t and the CD3t is better than the SONOS/QNAP so the Wyred for Sound mod seems viable not only for the Hi Res aspect especially possibly feeding the NDAC. Interesting to hear if others have incorporated the WFS SONOS mod.
 
 
Originally Posted by DT79:
I'm using a Sonos ZP90 as my main source connected via coax into my SN, playing a library of AIFF files, stored on a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo, and ripped/tagged by iTunes.

I know that I could obtain some improvements in my front-end, but I'm unsure which way to go as I think that I have a number of choices.  Sound quality is obviously the main priority, but it has to work reliably - I realise I've been spoiled with Sonos!

Option 1: buy a ZP90 with Wired4Sound modification - supposedly this offers improved quality as jitter is much reduced.  This would obviously involve continuing to use the SN DAC, but it's the only option that I could afford to pretty much go with straight away.

Option 2: upgrade to nDAC - I like this option because it means that I can continue to benefit from the Sonos' excellent interface and simple 'plugnplay' reliability. However would it sound as good as option 3....

Obviously I could combine options 1 and 2 in either order

Option 3: ND5XS.  I would love to have a 'proper' Naim front-end and certainly don't mind saving for it, but my only reservation is with the whole area of upnp networking - I really do want it to 'just work' like Sonos does and the volume of problem threads that I see here does not fill me with confidence.  How do I know whether the upnp server which runs on my NAS will play nicely with the ND5XS? Is it possible to install a new Upnp sever on my NAS if the embedded one doesn't work (I am a bit of a dunce where it comes to networking and have just kind of muddled my way through so far)

I know the obvious route is to audition etc, and i certainly will do that, but given that one option is open more or less now and the others need saving for, if the long term future is Sonos then it may make sense to go for the W4S ZP90 first and then start saving for the nDac.  I guess overall on a purely emotional level I favour going for the ND5XS,  and I just want to be convinced that I'm not going to regret it from a reliability and usability standpoint.

Opinions and advice appreciated!

Cheers
Dan
Posted on: 08 November 2011 by matpip

Dan,

I have your very same upgrade 'problem', just the SB Touch instead of the Sonos.

Please let us know if you have the chance of doing a proper demo sonos+DAC vs ND5XS vs NDX.

Cheers 

Posted on: 09 November 2011 by DT79
Hi mat - actually I decided that I couldn't spend that sort of money and that for much less I could get probably just as good sound from a second hand cdx2, so I went with that. When I'm in the lounge I don't mind swapping CDs. I'm interested to know how they compare if you ever get to do the comparison.
Posted on: 13 January 2012 by MoooMoo
I listened to an nd5xs versus sonos/ndac today (both into 200/202) and thought the sonos/ndac option was more enjoyable. I guess the better dac in the ndac more than made up for any deficiency in the sonos so I went for that option. Added bonus of sticking with the lovely sonos interface as I get a little frustrated by the naim one.
Posted on: 27 April 2013 by Yeast

I had the ND5XS/NAP200/NAC122 separates, and also a SuperUniti/nDAC/Unitiserve. I also have a sonos parallel system because I have 2 systems. The sound and user friendly integration of the Naim streamers is superior in my opinion. The amount of user info and flexibility of the remote interface (Ipod or iPad) is superb and so easy to learn in minutes.

 

I plan to buy the uniti2 in the future, or if I can find a used ND5xs, I will use the streaming feature for both systems. The nDAC, while good, was the smallest improvement IMHO and was the first item I sold off. The SuperUniti is superb, but costly with no upgrade path as none is needed with current technology.

 

I would strongly recommend going the ND5XS route because I thought the DAC included to be on par with a CDX2 and it was extremely musical. I'm told the only difference was the asynchronous USB interface is different on the nDAC.

 

For the price of the nDC or the ND5sx you could also have the uniti2 and sell the SN, and still have an upgrade path and the fine streaming interface of the uniti2. Ultimately its the sound and I prefer the Naim streamers the best, 32/192 capability not withstanding.

 

I will be testing a Marantz Network streamer next week to see if it will sound better than the sonos, but ultimately you have to listen yourself and make the choice, knowing Naim is the most expensive by a fair margin. 

Posted on: 27 April 2013 by NickSeattle

Hi, Dan,

 

I think Sonos probably needs the W4S upgrade or similar, from what I infer on this Forum.  Everyone who has done it and wrote about it here seems to think it helps.  In my system, stock Sonos via DC-1 RCA>BNC into the nDAC, is nice to use, but sounds flatter and less involving, to me and my wife, compared to my Squeezebox Touch via same.  I find this to be true with and without a 555DR on the DAC.  I might upgrade the Sonos one day, especially if the SBT becomes incompatible with evolving technology due to its discontinuation.

 

I home-demoed the NDS for a week, last week.  Really excellent.  It took me until day-3 to get UPnP working correctly, but that was not the NDS's nor Minimserver's fault.  Once I shut down other server software not needed for the NDS, it was rock-solid.

 

After returning the NDS, and restoring the SBT > DAC > 555DR, I was pleased how wonderful this combination sounds -- not much less satisfying, sound wise, IMHO.  I do miss the elegance and synergy of the Naim streamer, system automation, the nStream app, and not needing a separate DAC; on the other hand, trading the nDAC for ND-anything takes me down to one optical input from four -- I use three now, for a Mac, AppleTV, and TiVo.

 

I know I will try the NDS or NDX again one day, after I move.  A new room, and different, more discerning speakers might change my impressions.

 

Good luck choosing among your many good options.

 

Nick

Posted on: 28 April 2013 by NickSeattle

To clarify my comments, the Naim streamers are wonderful, and priced right, IMHO.  All I am saying is that if you already have and love the Naim DAC as I do, it can be hard to give it up, even for the very capable NDS, if only because of the features they trade, without discussing differences (subtle, again IMHO) in sound presentation.

 

Bottom line, I say:  if you want to keep the Sonos, upgrade it for sure; if you go UPnP, be unafraid, but patient and determined.

 

ATB,

 

Nick

Posted on: 28 April 2013 by Iver van de Zand

Hey Dan,

 

Concerning " Is it possible to install a new Upnp sever on my NAS if the embedded one doesn't work (I am a bit of a dunce where it comes to networking and have just kind of muddled my way through so far) " I believe that you should not worry. UpnP sofwtare has become more mature over the last 2 years. If you really doubt, I suggest to take your NAS to your dealer and have the software installed for you: here in BeLux we have 2 dedicated "streaming audio/video" stores and they install and tune (RAID etc) your NAS for € 10.

 

If you could ensure the above, your issue is really back to Sound Quality, easy of use and system balance. Personally I choose the ND5XS which in my system seem to perform more mature and relaxed than the nDac. The latter was somewhat too much. As a kind of "future proof" I also auditioned ND5XS/XP5XS versus nDac/XP5XS since and extra PSU is in my plans, and there the ND5XS/XP5XS really was a better fit for me.

 

Enjoy auditioning !

Iver