Update apps - news ?
Posted by: james n on 20 October 2011
Any news on when they will be out. IIRC Beta testing had been completed ?
Thanks
James
Apart from bug fixes, that not everyone seems to be affected by, the only thing I have heard Naim's customers repeatedly request is playlist or queue lists, so releasing a new version without it and letting speculation build its there is very poor customer management..
Perhaps this why there is no info forthcoming because the damage is done.
I really can't understand Naim's strategy here, perhaps they are looking to outsource this software development and they are treading water until they do so... But Naim don't seem to have a handle on these new web social media paradigms and how to manage customer expectation..
Simon
Sure it's not perfect but what impressed me was how far it has come (now runs natively on a Mac and is multi-platform) and the fact that it is being actively developed with both stable / unstable builds.
Allen is correct in pointing out the huge differences of approach between Linn's software and Naim's nStream. I think this is partly because Naim chose to get into the Server market and Linn decided to leave that part to others. As a result Naim still splits it's control software between renderer and server whilst soldiering on with a software development team that is blithely trying to reinvent the wheel.
It is still not too late. Kinsky is an open source project and Naim don't have to start from the beginning. Even if Linn makes it very difficult there is a whole community of fiendishly capable programmers who could be roped in to work on it.
However, given Naim's current determination to continue to develop server hardware with proprietary software I doubt much will change. They are making life ridiculously hard for themselves and I'm not surprised that their development lifecycle times are so painfully long.
For me nStream isn't a deal breaker as such. It works well with 3rd party server software and competitors such as Linn have failed to capitalise on their good judgement over server hardware by also giving on seperate amplification all together.
So Naim, for what it's worth - go open source for your control and server software.
Tog
But as you and Tog say, publish the APIs and let third party development progress. Again another aspect of the modern business and IT web culture that Naim are grappling with. It all feels about 10 years behind the times, when back then control meant non disclosure,
Simon
talking to the naim guys at manchester they dont seem bothered about the customers comments about the updates
I'm sure Apple sales guys felt the same way in the mid 90's ....
Tog
I just entered 'Naim fustration Nstream' into Google and if I was responsible for Naim marketing I would be concerned at the alarming number of matches....
Simon
I just entered 'Naim fustration Nstream' into Google and if I was responsible for Naim marketing I would be concerned at the alarming number of matches....
Simon
Hi Simon -
I could not agree more. Clearly Naim needs more software engineers, and better processes for delivering incremental updates. There really is no reason to make us wait 5 months for N-Stream bug fixes. Thousands of other companies have figured out how to deliver bug fixes and new features on a timely basis. I can think of only one valid reason why Naim has not done a better job of this: lack of resource. So from that perspective, I am hopeful that the merger will result in a bigger R&D budget, and better, more timely software releases over time.
At RMAF, Doug was very enthusiastic about the next N-Stream release. Of course, he is a great sales guy, and enthusiastic about all things Naim! While in the Naim room, I heard lots of discussion about the new N-Stream feature set (improved navigation, playlists, links to LastFM for info about current music choice). I also heard that the beta testing was complete, and that it was now just a matter of getting through the release process (both internally and through Apple). Of course, everything is subject to change, and who knows what has happened since last weekend. But I am hopeful that they have gotten this next version right. More importunately, I am hopeful that Naim will start to get better at software development. They just have to! The user interfaces for network players, servers and all-in-ones are absolutely key to their market acceptance. There is no way Naim can continue to deliver mediocre software, and expect to be successful on sound quality alone -- their competition is too strong, and there are a growing number of viable substitutes. And I am pretty sure they know this.
Hook
Whats important I think is that Allen has yet another dolly out the pram, this will no doubt help the situation.
I think we were saying something very similar a year ago.
Tog
maybe naim should talk to sonos
As Barry Grant might say Allen ..."Calm down calm down ... Joost beehayve wii ya" or was that Harry Enfield?
Clearly Naim should note the emotional turmoil that nStream can create in its loyal customers ...
Allen (damn this multitouch mouse Apple....) the war will be over by Christmas - just not sure which one - now back to that Devralet brochure.....
Tog
And why would a Trade Member come on here and say no playlists. That would infer these members have prior knowledge. Knowledge that should be imparted to customers as well, those that have bought into this software as part of the hardware already purchased..
Allen,
I am a beta tester, this is the only reason I know about apps prior to official announcement. There is no specific embargo on new features; I just feel it it not my role to give you all details.
I get album art. It works fine in that department. It just takes forever to load lists and art when scrolling around. at least half as fast as PP or Remote.
Absolutely right, Naim's silent treatment is just appalling.
Tog, I assume you mean Devialet but keep inserting R in the mix? 
It's a beautiful machine, but AD-DA conversion for all analogue inputs is too much of a perversion for me. I don't want my vinyl sound digitized or anywhere near a DAC chip.
Naim updates (at least for nDAC) have been downloadable USB-updates too, nothing new there. But charging extra for the streamer upgrade module for products as fresh as NDX is pretty greedy and grim...
Update seems to be available!!! V 2.2 (holding breath) 
Two pints or points
1. The guys at Devialet are vinyl obsessives and the D can be tuned to a cartridge of your choice. They spent more time on the phono inputs that any other part of the device. I'm saving up.
2. The nStream app has come as predicted without playlists but on the iPad at least has some visual flourishes nicked from Apple's Remote.
A bit of an anticlimax - after over 6 months.
Tog
Just downloaded 2.2, and unless I am missing something, it is still the same old tedious navigation model. I still have to go from All Artists/Artist Name/All Albums/Album Name/Song in order to play music. Once an artist name is selected, why can't it just show all albums? Sigh. And I still have to walk back up, step-by-step. Why no escape to All Artists button? Manu was, of course, correct -- no playlists. I do see a new right arrow to access the (minimal) file info, and then left arrow to come back again to the player screen. And the library/player toggle has moved to a button in the upper right hand portion of the screen.
And that's about it?
The Apple app store description says:
- ND5XS and SuperUniti compatibility
- Updated iPad UI
- iOS5 compatibility
- Bug Fixes
The second bullet appears to be stretching it a bit, as far as I can tell. In other words, no new major features in 2.2.
The only positive thing I can think to say is, and it may be my imagination, but 2.2 does feel a little faster than 2.1.
All in all, it is (yet another) disappointment! I apologize for repeating what was discussed at RMAF, as clearly this was *not* the release they were describing! That is, unless there is another release to follow closely on 2.2's heals......yeah, well, never mind. Silly thought.
I guess that given Naim was officially silent about what 2.2 would contain (other than Manu's kind warning that playlists were not going to be part of the release), it is pretty hard to point a finger at Naim and claim we were told any differently. Come to think of it, I should have heeded Manu's warning, and started lowering all of my expectations for all the other features that were discussed at RMAF (better navigation, links to LastFM for album info, time remaining or song length -- either will do, etc.).
This is a bummer. Or again, maybe I am missing something? My setting does say 2.2.......
Hook
Two pints or points
1. The guys at Devialet are vinyl obsessives and the D can be tuned to a cartridge of your choice. They spent more time on the phono inputs that any other part of the device. I'm saving up.
2. The nStream app has come as predicted without playlists but on the iPad at least has some visual flourishes nicked from Apple's Remote.
A bit of an anticlimax - after over 6 months.
Tog
Tog -
Have you listened to the D-Premier? I think it will require careful speaker matching in order to sound its best. Heard it paired with YG Carmels, and it sounded very clinical, almost tinny. Then heard a big class A Vitus amp paired with those same speakers, and they sounded warm and beautiful. Two identical hotel rooms. So, at a minimum, the D-Premier appears to require some careful speaker matching in order to sound its best. Would be interesting to hear from any others who have bought one. What speakers did you pick, and how does it sound?
I agree completely that this N-Stream release is a major let down. Not enough for me to chuck all my Naim out the window (right now anyway), but still a big disappointment. And if there is one thing I learned at RMAF, there are lots of really good choices out there for making beautiful music.
Hook
Not yet - there aren't many distributors in my neck of the woods - Oxford would probably be the nearest.
If there is anyone who has bought one it would be good to get a viewpoint.
Tog
This release is a perfect example of why Naim doesn't want to give informations before the official release. I can just tell you that some features I had on my last Beta test version have not been included in the final release. Removed at last minutes...
Remember software developement is an on-going project. During this Beta test I have seen days with 2 versions.
They work hard to improve things, sometime there are situations out of Naim's control...