Help tracking lost post in Italy

I note many E-bay sellers don't take bids from Italy as the non-arrival rate is far too high.

Just had a look for you but as you're probably aware there isn't even address in Milan given and no further details, I could have tried ringing up for you but without any further info I wouldn't know where to start. Your best bet is to get Royal Mail onto it.

I wish I'd known that 5 weeks ago. Packet was sent International Signed For, so hopefully I won't lose out, but as things stand Paypal deducted the payment (£100.00) from my account.

When Paypal advised there was an undelivered item dispute they kindly sent a link supposedly advising what to do next. Unfortunately it only contained advise  on how the buyer can grab the money back from the seller.

The recipient is asking me to provide a link to enable him to track and trace in italy. I was hoping somebody could provide a link. Presumably the Itallian post office have an online track and trace facility.

I spoke to the post office last week, as far as they're concerned it's up to the recipient to contact the Italian post office and claim compensation, which I understand and agree with. However, I'd personally like confirmation it has or hasn't arrived. It's a bit strange the recipient can't do so.

Fatcat,

your parcel arrived in Italy on the 23rd of September and was delivered, without success, on the 27th of September.

A notice was left advising the buyer that it is currently waiting to be picked up at the post office.

If you're buyer is not aware of the notice, and hence still waiting for your parcel, tell him to go to the post office at the "Raccomandata" (certified letter - as your parcel has been sent as such) counter and explain the situation and give the tracking number.

All the best.

Stefano

Stefano

That's exactly the information I need.

A huge thanks for going to so much trouble.

fatcat

The buyer collected the parcel today from the post office. He's opened a claim, stating the goods (tonearm) not as described. Reasons. Externally damaged and internally damaged.

He's subsequently advised

Hallo. Tonearm free in the packet with any protection. Headshell and counterweight not removed. Result: cartridge damaged,scotch glue everywhere...how is possible to send a fragile item as a tonearm in this inadequate package?

Well, it wasn't loose in box when I dropped it off at the post office and I doubt it would have became loose without some external force or intervention. Although I must admit, removing the weight would have been a good idea.

Fatcat

I worked for the Post Office as a Purchasing Manager for 22 years and I actually signed off many of the contracts between the RM and foreign Post Offices to deliver goods abroad.

If you used the original box with the original polystyrene packing to deliver the goods, they will go safely anywhere in the world. Thousands of companies safely deliver thousands of parcels all over the world every day because they are properly packed in a professional manner.

Nearly every claim for goods damaged in transit arises from the goods being packed by a private individual. The acid test is for you to pack the goods as hard as you bloody can with no scope for internal movement. The acid test is to literally mean shake the guts out of it.  If you can hear or feel the goods moving about inside then it is not good enough and no company will support your claim if you used padding such as bubble wrap or chips etc. You cannot run fast enough to keep up with the speed that parcels are sped along delivery machines and they must be packed properly to tolerate those conditions.

If you used the original box with the original internal padding, you should be safe. If you packed it in an alternative manner, you almost certain are guilty of inadequate packing.

Regards

Mick

Mick,

Thanks for the very informative reply. I certainly try my best to carefully pack anything I am selling. Sounds like the OP did the same. I don't want to hijack the thread but I do see an awful lot of ebay sellers who won't post to Italy. If you can comment (and I can understand if you can't) is this because of some problem with the Italian postal system? Or are there a disproportianate amount of ebay scammers there?

Dave

I am now retired and have no more involvement with the RM. However I do have regular contact with old colleagues and I have never heard of Italy being mentioned in the sense that they have more problems than any other country.  Generally speaking, the main difference between countries is the time taken for the parcel / letter to arrive.  So as far as I know, Italy is no different from any other country.

Regards

Mick

Last year i sent two packets to Italy -

one being a lovely Contax Carl Zeiss camera lense sold on ebay for £140 + another £40 for priotity services (registered) which arrived in a few days no problem.

The other item a mint condition poloroid camera (remember them! : )  which only sold for 15 quid so i posted it 'small packet rate' which cost about £10 ....it never arrived ...it vanished.

So i had to refund the whole £25 : (

Apparently, packets or parcels that are not signed for on every exchange are very likely to go missing in Italy. 

I didn't know before but i found out after there are a lot of unhappy stories from ebay sellers who've had their sales go missing in Italy.

However, this is not the case for fatcat -

sounds like the customs men may have bashed it open...

they obviously didn't think it was worth pinching.

Debs

Debs

I was "in the trade" for over twenty years and losses and late deliveries are monitored by independant agencies to avoid figures being manipulated. This will cover literally millions of deliveries and is 100% accurate. I know because my dept helped to set the contracts up with the agencies.

Also this suggestion that parcels are opened up by theiving staff is exaggerated. There are several ways that this is prevented and a system of entrapment is used and this acts as a powerful detereent.

From memory, Italy had no worse a record for losses or damage than any other EU country and it is best no to make statements based on anecdote.

Common sense dictates that you should only send valuable items on a recorded or special delivery basis.

Regards

Mick

Well there is obviously a perceived risk as many E-Bay sellers state no Italy postings, even saying due to a large number of "missing" parcels.

This is one of the problems of the internet - patchy infomation.

We now have a situation where people may be put off posting to Italy because it is "risky".

Simple question  --  can anyone here firmly state what percentage of Italian parcels goes missing or is damaged in transit and how that compares with other countries.  I don't expect any answers because facts are harder to back up than anecdotes.

Regards

Mick

Sorry Mick but it is not a myth. I send 100's of packages out a year and I had to stop sending to Italy. Over 10% went missing, it was becoming a joke with the local post office who told me lots of other customers had stopped sending to Italy as well for the same reason.

Darran

Well at least you have some firm evidence.

All I am saying was that I monitored the contracts with agencies who measured postal performance completely independant of any Post Office.  Not once was Italy's name mentioned for lost or damaged post.

You get lots of people using the term "Parcelfarce" because they know of several instances of lost parcels.  The simple truth was was Parcelforce came out on top percentwise with respect to lost and damaged parcels.  In other words, it was the most reliable courior in the UK.

One thing I learnt years ago when dealing with a companies reputation, never rely on anecdote, most of it comes from people who heard it from someone else who in turn heard it from someone else ad infidnitum.

Regards

Mick

Well, I guess I must consider myself very lucky as I continue to receive parcels from abroad, particularly the UK; they actually arrive, intact, despite Italy

Last one I received was this morning from England. I am so relieved it actually managed to arrive as I was not aware of the risk I was facing, but now that I know better I will stop it.

Thanks for the heads up !

Stefano

Oh don't get me started on ParcelFarce

Mick,

The discussion here is about the integrity of the Italian postal system, not Royal Mail.

It’s very well know on ebay that posting to Italy is very risky, especially without using tracking or priority service feature.

Out of the two packets i posted to Italy last year, only one arrived so my own statistics show a 50% failure rate.

Debs

Debs

If you post something to Italy, you pay the Royal Mail to send it.  The Royal Mail eventually pays the Italian Post Office, so two companies are involved.

Both of these Post Offices are scrutinised by independant auditors on millions of deliveries. If a foreign Post Office was as bad as you imply, it would certainly be public knowledge and also known to the Royal Mail. In the 10 or so years that I managed these contracts, the performance of every country that I dealt with never gave cause for concern. 

What appears to be happening is that allegations are being made by individuals but there is no statistical evidence to back this up.

As I said before, most damaged in transit goods were packed by "amatuers" and this seems likely in this instance.  Just check the packing of any electrical goods you buy from currys or comet and you will see what I mean.  The box can be shaken and the goods will remain intact. You should be able to drop it off a table and the goods should remain intact. You cannot pack something like your old granny did and expect it to survive foreign transit.

You claim to have a 50% failure rate for lost in transit, the evidence is that that the percentage of lost goods is infinitely small, even compared to damaged goods. Often people don't write the correct post code etc and again, it is always private individuals who claim their goods get lost.  Companies with professional goods outward depts rarely suffer from these problems, so that should tell you something.

Regards

Mick

Mick,

I would suggest your comments are well out of date considering you’ve been retired off for the best part of a decade, perhaps a lot has gone down hill since.

The claims that Italy is a risky place to post mail to is quite factual and well known, and your argument against it only shows your present lack of understanding.

Also, my missing packet to Italy had the destination address correctly and clearly written down twice, plus again on the customs label, plus my own address written on the back plus again on the customs label.

I'm always too carefull and don’t make mistakes with addresses.

The issue of mail going missing from UK to any EU country concerns many thousands of people who do complain about it to Royal Mail but the most common-denominator dodgy destination would appear to be Italy.

A couple of months ago I did read an article written by a (record collector) Italian resident who explained that in order to save as much money as possible the Italian Post Office is using very low paid economic migrant labour in order to produce the big buck bonuses for the bosses which is far more important than the safety or security of the mail there obviously.

So the problem is unlikely caused by the majority of hard working honest Italian mail workers but more likely by more than a few uncensored wage-slave employees who are exploited by greedy managerial capitalists.

Apparently this is a perfectly acceptable arrangement under the reign of corrupt Billionaire Berlusconi the Bigot.

Debs

Debs

Yes I did retire in 2004 from the Post Office and yes I could be out of date. However I keep in regular contact with people in RM and they have confirmed that the trend for damage and goods lost in transit is improving year on year.

The simple fact is that there is no statistical fact to back up sweeping statements such as those being made here.

For instance can you put some figures on this

The issue of mail going missing from UK to any EU country concerns many thousands of people who do complain about it to Royal Mail but the most common-denominator dodgy destination would appear to be Italy.

How many are "thousands of people" and what percentage of claims are attributable to Italy ?

Let's get some numbers on the table.

Mick

Just do a search on the Ebay forums to see how many people refuse to send to Italy. If the UK offered a fully trackable service at a reasonable cost maybe things would be different.

This is one quote out of hundreds I found...

Hi all. I've finally had enough of the constant emails from Italian customers asking where their items are. I've sent countless parcels to Italy and almost every single one has either taken up to 4 weeks to be delivered or gone missing completely. I ALWAYS include a return address on my parcels and not one has come back

Darran

The Royal Mail has no influence on Italty's Post Office. It is down to the Italian Post Office to set up a tracking service.

Secondly you are just quoting from the internet from people you don't even know. The internet is useless for this sort of thing. One person has a bad experience and writes a hundred emails under different names to exact revenge. Then everyone goes around spouting their mouth off about a non existant issue.

The only reliable information is from official audits. Anything else is bullshit for the consumption of the gullible.

The main problem seems to be long delivery times and I get that in Spain. My Spanish electricity and water bills take 2 weeks to arrive, not every country has a postal system as good as the UKs.

Regards

Mick