Help tracking lost post in Italy

Mick,

I am also speaking from personal experience,  I will not send anything to Italy due to previous losses unless it is sent via UPS. On low cost items this makes the cost prohibitive. Most people I have spoken to do not put a claim in for the loss of low value items, it is too time consuming to wait 9 months for a £10.00 refund, yes from personal experience, so this will not show on any audit.

I know at least 12 record dealers who will not ship to Italy, this is hardly quoting people I don't know.

regards,

Darran

Hi Darran

Are you actually saying that all 12 of these dealers have had a personal problem with Italy or they have heard rumblings and decided not to take a chance ?

There is a big difference between 12 people with live experience and 12 people backing off due to anecdote.

Regards

Mick

Sorry Mick but all of them have had numerous problems sending to Italy and now refuse unless a courier service with on-line signature proof of delivery is used. They are not all UK based so I am not saying Royal Mail is at fault. There are other countries where mail seems to get delayed often but not where so many items go missing.

regards,

Darran

Reading Mick’s professional advice on packing, I would have to say I am an amateur.

I’ve not had any problems until now with posting things to Italy, sent a few old M42 lenses without a problem. I’m more annoyed/suspicious of the actions of the buyer.

10th Oct, asked for tracking number. (tracking number sent next day)

18^th Oct, opened an ebay dispute for item not delivered.

20^th Oct, asked for tracking number (tracking number sent next day).

23^rd Oct, asked for link to tracking webpage

25^th Oct, I forwarded the details supplied by Stefano, he agrees to collect it.

27^th Oct, collects item, opens ebay dispute for item not as described and immediately escalates it to a Paypal claim.

27^th Oct, I sent an email, asking for photos and suggesting we could sort it out amicably. He hasn’t replied.

As of today, the Italian online track and trace doesn’t indicate the parcel has been collected.

Suspicious – The buyer has 375 positive buying feedbacks in the last 12 month and asked me for a tracking number, indicating he is no stranger to the Italian postage service, yet he doesn’t know how to track an item.

Annoyed – By immediately escalating it to a Paypal claim, the option for me to offer full refund if returned is not available. I’m presuming if he wins claim he will keep the damaged goods, although the only damage is a broken stylus and glue on the arm. The headshell is probably worth £35.00.

I was contemplating selling a couple of rare records worth about £400 each on ebay, offering to post abroad but now I’m not sure, even though restricting the sale to UK may reduce the selling price.

I have never had a parcel lost so far, neither sending nor receiving. Prejudices don't generally need facts to support them, otherwise they would not be prejudices but facts.

This is not to say that Italy's Post is perfect, but I strongly second Mick's suggestion (and warmly thank him for that) that we are not different from any other country.

M.

So the facts that thousands of people have experienced the real life experience of losing mail posted to Italy is totally overlooked or hushed up incase we appear… “Prejudiced”?

The facts are that too many people are being deliberately robbed or scammed of the costs of their goods and postal costs.

It’s robbery, dishonesty, criminality, call it what you like it’s illegal in every other EU country, perhaps it is also in Italy but we should be told…

Do a Google search on Posting mail to Italy and you can read a great many real life factual accounts from lots of factual people who have been factually disappointed, concerned, and angered by losing mail in Italy, and this doesn’t cause prejudice, it causes a well founded understanding that Italy is a dodgy place to send mail to.

Naim-Nymph

There may be thousands of parcels lost ( I would like to see proof of this  (i.e documentation) rather than the usual hot air on a forum versus the numer of successful deliveries which must run into the millions.

Not one person has quoted a percentage defect rate  --- the simple reason is that they don't have a single fact to back up any claim.

Regards

Mick

I've just searched Ebay for "post to Italy", 22,337 items contain this text. Only checked 10 of them, but all impose restrictions on posting to Italy. Some will only post if buyer pays for international signed for.

The link below is from a seller with over 56,000 feedbacks, 56,000 is a large enough sample to accurately evaluate the risks of posting to Italy.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUDD...;hash=item2eb7a872f5

I noticed sellers that also won't post to Poland, Brazil and Mexico.

One thing stands out. The sellers trade in small items, that easily fit into a pocket. Nearly 5,000 DVD's and 3,200 CD's, easily identified and pocketed. I suspect a large nondescript box would not go missing

Mick,

Do you really believe there are truthful and accurate statistics?

So you only want a bunch of dodgy statisticians working for Greedy Capitalist Corporations who manipulate, control, and massage trumped up numbers so it can be pointed at in order to deceive the general public.

It is well known they fidddle statistics to drive up their boardroom bonuses, but there's no profits in it for them to tell the public how much mail got stolen.

There has been no transparency with Royal Mail accounting or statistics ever since it was corrupted with those criminals Leighton & Crozier, who only had plans for themselves and their boardroom chumps to get rich quick by sucking the life-blood out of the public service, and robbing the company pension funds.

Unfortunately i can’t see why this profits before people policy would be any different in any present day EU Post Office, but the facts remain: statistics can not be relied upon for exposing the truth in this day a age - the truth would have a detriment affect on the big bonus culture of the directorships.

Debs

Debs

You are reducing this discussion to a new low.  The surveys are run outside of the Post Offices. Even though I commissioned the surveys I had no say in how they were run, they were truly independent which is a sign of their impartiality.  No one in the Post Offices knew when the surveys were run, it was all done under the mystery shopeer formulea.

Your comments about Crozier and Leighton are without any foundation and are overtly political and nothing to do with this topic. You are running off at a tangent.

If you wish to discuss privatisation, then please start another thread but you are fouling up this one completely

To be frank, you have reduced this discussion to a playground squabble.

You have made allegations without a single verifiable figure to back them up and as such have lowered the tone below a level that I would wish to participate in. You almost sound like a bad version of citizen smith.

Mick

Problems been sorted. I completed the claim suggesting full refund when arm returned. Buyer suggested 35Euro compensation for damaged cartridge. I'm happy with that.

I'll definitely still ship to Italy, I look at it this way. If I open up an auction for European postage, the selling price will be more than if I didn't. Any losses will be covered by the accumulation of the higher selling price.

Fatcat,

Bear in mind that you can be selective in which countries you are prepared to ship to.

When I sold my FlatCap I excluded quite a few European countries, but included Australia and New Zealand. It went to Australia in the end.

HTH

John

Good to hear the problem has been sorted out this way, i was worried you may have lost the lot.

And i too will still post to Italy, but in future i will insist on tracking or a priority service - even if this costs dearer than the item being posted.

Mick,

Sorry my impersonation skills are not up to you critical standard, but I do the best I can.

At least your Captain Mainwaring double is a right corker  

Debs

Debs

I really do wish people would engage their brains before sounding off. What you wrote above isn't even at the level I would expect of a 12 year old school kid.

Let us address your points one by one.

1.  Dodgy Stastistics

The stats for monitoring performance are not done by the Post Offices.  The Post Offices appoint several independant agencies to set up tracking systems and monitor performance. This is done by several agencies and none of the Post Offices have a clue what the final result will be.  There is no way on earth that the Post Offices can interfere with the stats because

a)   The stats are presented to several department directly from the agencies so fiddling is impossible

b)   The agencies are forbidden by law to liaise with the Post Offices

c)   The results of each agency are compared for consistancy.

If you have any knowledge of "fiddling", I advise you to contact a newspaper because they will pay you a fortune for any information that leads to an exposure. The simple truth is that stats on late delivery and damaged goods are compiled outside the control of any Post Office. Naturally you have spouted off, making a noise with no back up evidence.

Also The Regulator can check anything and the simple truth is that the stats are genuine.

2.  Leighton & Crozier

These comments border on total stupidity. Every financial and accounting claim made by Leighton & Crozier was verified by the regulator who is much better than you at identifying any malpractice.  Your comments on robbing the pension fund is frankly libelous.  The pension funds (all three of them) are seperately managed at Chesterfield and the trustees operate completely free of board interference.  The finanances are totally transparent and once again if you have any proof of theft, just pop along to your local newspaper who will snap your hand off at any revelation.

Finally the pension funds were moved into treasurey funds where they are 100% safe (or as safe as can be) and not one penny was lost in the process. Therefore the pension is safer than ever and is underwritten by the government.  I really do suggest you choose words like "robbing" much more carefully.

The simple fact is that stats on delivery performance are established independant of the Post Offices and that it is impossible for the PO to fiddle them. That is why they are held in high regardby everyone in the trade, including HMG and the direct mail industry.

I just wish you would act your age and do some research when participating in this type of discussion because this childish mouthing off is doing noone any favours.

Mick

Mick,

Good post and hitting the nail on the head. I'm sure the stats are 100% independent. As I sell a small amount on ebay this has got me interested in statistics on delivery. I've done a few searches but can't find a link to much. Is this available to the public? If so do you know if we could break this down by country/type of parcel/service/size/value of item? On other forums there seem to lots of apocryphal stories of posties pocketing DVD size jiffy bags etc.

Dave

Dave

The figures were commercially confident when I left in 2004 and probably remain so today. Also each country compiled its own survey and the exchange of information would almost certainly be on a non disclosure basis.

The simple rule to protect yourself is insurance plus signature as proof of receipt.

Regards

Mick

Dear Mick,

Glad to see you posting again.

I don't really understand the ins and outs of this, but I have sent post to Italy, including a turntable, which was more than well packed. All was good. I have sent to Poland and had it returned for the lack of a signature to receive ...

In my view expensive things can be sent with insurance and tracking/signature for receipt.

No doubt things can go wrong, but my experience is that they almost always go right, even if something is returned.

Best wishes from George

Good Morning George

I hope you are keeping well.

As per usual your post is common sense and I just wish others would emulate it instead of running off on a tangent on a topic of which they have little or no operational knowledge.

The internet is a wonderful thing but its downside is that it allows uneducated people to hide behind false names and be able to spread unfounded facts which can harm the reputation of an industry and its workforce.

Regards

Mick

OFF TOPIC WARNING:

Dear Mick,

I am climbing back on the horse of life, as you may possibly have noted. I now have a lovely replay system consisting of the latest techology and a selection of the great old style - see profile - pieces, and it is easily the best replay I have encountered, though no doubt could be even finer.

I hope life goes well with you.

Best wiishes from George

PS: I do have a thread running on the commissionng and refinement of my radio and gramophone running just now in the HIFI Corner.

I am on journey of discovery with this combination of the old and new!

Very best wishes fromn George

Good evening George

It is good to see you are back on track music wise. I am becoming a vinyl junkie and I am listening to my LPs for around 3 hours a day when I am at home and it has never sounded better.  I cannot understand why the cartridge hasn't yet worn out but instead it almost seems to improve.

Regards

Mick